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Featured Who's Responsible?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, May 29, 2014.

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  1. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    You're wrong here Brother, imo. They listen and learn because they have already been quickened to life.



    You have that one quote that doesn't mean what you think it means, imo. There are other quotes of his that states he holds to pre-faith regeneration.
     
  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The Bible states, "God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent" (Acts 17:30). So, man is responsible.
     
  3. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Well, well, well, well, lookie here....it's Brother Herald! How have you been? I love you Brother! :love2: :flower: :wavey: :thumbsup:
     
  4. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    And you hit the nail on the proverbial head, Brother Herald.....
     
  5. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Regeneration before faith is ridiculous, i believe Spurgeon made it plain enough and to eat first eat first as the scripture teaches I agree with. That is what quickens us no matter what you think.

    John 6:53
    Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

    I still care for you, and you are my brother in Christ and I believe God elected it to be so! I know it is the Gospel that brings life to the dead that is why Jesus sends us to plant seeds and water for that is our curse to work the fields and reap what we sow.

    We can change the world one person at a time with the Holy spirit that dwells in our temple will give us the power to do greater things than Jesus because He went to the Father and poured His Spirit upon the world so we can do the work God has prepared us in advance to do and break some stoney hearts with the Holy Spirit that is working in us.
     
  6. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Ezekiel 18:32
    For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
     
  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    I just wish I had my Nook with me. I have that book, and in it, a book of CHS' where he states the exact opposite of what you think he holds to. But I digress...

    AMEN!! :thumbsup: Look at it like this. We, as sinners, were dead spiritually. Not like a corpse, but dead to righteousness. Our righteousness is as filthy rags....see menstrual cloth. In that state, we had no desire to come to Him. Him quickening us, it changed the disposition of our heart....insert soul here....from rebelling to coming.

    And you are my Brother, too, and I love you!! :thumbsup:

    God breaks the stony hearts and the words we preach to them will take up root in their life and bring forth fruit. God quickens, we preach to them, those who have been quickened, have a true understanding of what we're saying, and will come. The others, the goats, will scoff at the message(s), and die lost. And they're still responsible for their wicked deeds.

    Thanks ever so much for this civil discussion. It's rather refreshing. :thumbsup:
     
  8. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    The scriptures are clear that man has the ability to choose whether he yields himself to sin, or righteousness.

    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
    17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
    18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Romans 6:16 shows man has option and choice. Whoever he yields himself to, he becomes servant, "whether" (option) of sin to death, "or" (option) of obedience to righteousness.

    That the sinner has the ability to obey the gospel is clearly stated in verses 17 and 18. Paul says God be thanked that "ye were" the servants of sin, but they have obeyed from the heart the doctrine delivered them, that is, believed the gospel.

    It was THEN, after believing the gospel that these sinners were made free from sin, and passed from death to life.

    So, scripture is perfectly clear that sinners have the option and ability to believe the gospel and when they do they become servants of righteousness.

    Regeneration before faith is utterly ridiculous and logically impossible, because until you believe you are dead in trespasses and sins.

    Regeneration does not mean to be illuminated, or enlightened, or made aware, it literally means to be made alive again, to pass from death to life, which only happens after one believes.

    Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    John 5:24 clearly shows faith precedes regeneration.
     
    #68 Winman, May 31, 2014
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  9. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    First of all, it takes God to plant, people don't plant themselves. He plants them besides the water, which is the Spirit. Planting His trees was Him choosing them from the others, leaving them to their own destruction.



    "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper."(Psalms 1:1-3)


    "The trees of the Lord are full of sap; the cedars of Lebanon, which he hath planted;(Psalms 104:16)


    "For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit."(Jeremiah 17:8)


    "But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up."(Matthew 15:13)



    Everyone of us, the elect, has been planted by God. Has been chosen by God. Has had our name recorded in the Lamb's Book of Life from before the foundation of the world. God sent His Son to fulfill that promise. We were sheep gone astray, that had no Shepherd. God sent Jesus, our Shepherd, to gather us back into the fold....the fold that Adam cast us out of, still being in his loins.
     
  10. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    God doesn't take pleasure in their destruction, but due to Him being just, He sends them there....
     
  11. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Ah, but you stop one verse too short. .... If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:


    The natural man CAN NOT receive the things of the Spirit, because they are foolishness to him, because they are Spiritually discerned....that is correct.


    Now, let's shimmy down a few more verses in chapter 1 of Isaiah....

    "Therefore saith the Lord, the Lord of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies: And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin: And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city. Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness."(vss 24-27)



    God always has a way fixed to protect them that are His, regardless how bad it looks. Daniel, and Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego in Babylon. Joseph whilst in Egypt, as well as Moses, Aaron, and the Israelites in Egypt, too.


    Keeping the ten commandments are fruitless if Christ isn't in their life. None other than Christ could keep it. The Jews and Mormons may observe the ten, but I guar-un-tee you they sure don't keep them. None can, nor ever will. They may not seem foolish to them, but they...the Jews and Mormons don't have Christ, Who is the very embodiment of the Ten.
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    My claim:

    "To the natural man void of the Spirit, anything concerning the things of God is foolishness to him."

    The scripture claim:

    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14
     
    #72 kyredneck, May 31, 2014
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  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I can say Amen to that! However, you actually never answered my question which was in response to what you had said about what a man finds "pleasing"....

    "Do you believe that man finds eternal death pleasing to himself?"
     
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    It's an insanely ridiculous question. You actually think he's obligated to answer it?
     
  15. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    I think his question was one of honestly probing for and seeking answers for further thought. Were you obligated to respond the way that you did?
     
  16. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    We find in the "New" Testament, God has extended an offer of covenant to all (i.e. notice He says "world")

    "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

    That is the "world" spoken of, that "through Him (Jesus)" the "world might be saved".

    "Whosoever" may enter into to this offer of covenant and God will regenerate that person, giving them a new heart, a saving faith via the Holy Spirit, a Gift of eternal faith and eternal life! For He will dwell "in" the person via His Spirit which He shall give unto everyone who ask! Praise His marvelous works!

    "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"

    "Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water."

    "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

    Twice, two separate passages, we see Jesus establishing the doctrine that a person needs to ask for the Holy Spirit, and then the Living water will be given.

    "Now when they heard this (gospel), they were pricked in their heart (conviction), and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent (from unbelief to belief), and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (After)" [emphasis mine]

    Amen! :thumbs:

    It's all right there in scripture, why does the Calvinist insist it isn't so???
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    You know me QF, I'm one of those mean spirited DoGs you've been whining about since your first day on this board.

    "Do you believe that man finds eternal death pleasing to himself?"

    What an insanely adolescent ridiculous stupid question. Do you actually believe Willis is obliged to answer it?

    If steaver gets his feelings hurt over my response, then GOOD! Maybe he'll stop and think next time before he puts into writing something this absurd and actually expect a rational response to it.
     
  18. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Most sinners are in a state of denial, using the mantra "God is love", as their crutch, believing such a loving God would not thrust them headlong into torment. I knew for years if I died in my sinful state, I'd go to hell, but I still lived that sinful lifestyle, not wanting to deny myself and come to Him.


    Let me say, unequivocally, that God chose me. I did not choose Him, He chose me. If He had not sought me out, I'd still be in my sins.

    No, I didn't desire the flames, but my desire for sin was far greater than being reconciled to God. He changed my desires. It's as simple as that.
     
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You said, "Steaver makes an idol out of mans supposed choice". The choice is clearly presented in the Word of God, thus you would have to be calling the Word of God my idol. Now I do love the Word of God, does that make the Word of God an idol to me. Some may think so I guess.
     
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    How is it that you knew for years if you died you would go to hell because of your sins, yet you were not yet regenerated? You had no indwelling Spirit to convince you of this?
     
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