Why I am KJV Only

Michelle,

As to the rules for this forum, click on the Reminders topic at the top of this forum.

I do understand the passion that you have about your beliefs, and I commend you for it. So many today are too wishy-washy about their convictions to even bother to speak out. But (ain't there always one of those?) I am also passionate about my own. While I try not to be beligerant and tactless, I nonetheless (good KJV word) will not stand by while someone attacks something that I believe in.

You have the right to believe that the KJV is the perfectly preserved word of God. I have the right to believe that the KJV is but one of many translations that are the word of God, but I do not think that any of them are "perfect" in and of themselves.

Does this mean that I think that God has not preserved His word? Absolutely not! We have God's word in many different forms (manuscripts, fragments, translations), all of which are preserved. I can say that no translation (KJV included) is perfect because of the loss of meaning when you translate Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek into English. All three of the original languages used in the writing of the bible are very general, in that a word represents more of an idea than a specific object, while English is a language that tends to deal with specifics.

Am I discounting the KJV as the word of God? No. I love and use the KJV, but not exclusively. Am I exalting some other translation as the perfect word of God? No, for the reasons listed above. Do I believe tht God's word is inerrant? Absolutely! I just prefer to see His inerrant word from more than one source.

Oh, and the stuff about Precepts. Yes, he did accuse me of being unsaved because of my stance against the man-made doctrine of KJVOnlyism. Many here can attest to it, so I know that I was not mistaking his intent or words. But it was edited out quickly (thank you, Dr. Bob) after it was reported by several.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Yeah, Trotter and I just got a "lower level of salvation" like all of us MVer's who got saved after reading the Gospel of Jesus in an MV.

We only get to go to the basement when we get to heaven. :D :rolleyes:

 

But, you KJVos can come down and visit anytime you want. Just don't tell anybody upstairs. ;)

 

Yes I do. I just don't believe He did it in one single document. He did it in 1000's of handwritten documents that all differ from each other. The Word is perfectly preserved however so that we have God's revelation of Himself to us.

Michelle, The KJV did not proceed out of the mouth of God.

Faith that is contradictory to fact is called superstition. You can have faith in anything you want... your faith simply doesn't make it true.

God promised to preserve His Word... He did not promise to do it in the KJV or any other single version. If you say that the KJV is the sole manifestation of God's promised preservation then you are putting words into His mouth presumptuously.

No. You have a skewed view of the truths of scripture on this issue colored by your preconceptions.

What? Are you now agreeing with us that God's Word is preserved in other translations? I would never say "all" however.

I have never denied the "truth" that God's Word is preserved in faithful English versions.

That's inconsistent Michelle. You can't simultaneously argue that anything different from the KJV is corrupt and then say that other translations are OK- in any language or any generation.

This is nothing more that a statement of the obvious. What you have failed to prove is that a) the TR and KJV are always correct and b) that any of these differences effect doctrinal truth in such a way as to disqualify on version or the other from being valid.

The KJV differs from the originals. They cannot both be God's pure word of truth... see how ridiculous that statement is?

That is not the mythical nor superstitious part of your beliefs. The mythical, superstitious part of your beliefs is that He did it in the KJV and only in the KJV... and THAT is the truth.

I have complete faith in God's promises... actually more than you since I don't try to twist what He did to make it agree with what I think He should have done. God never spoke the KJV into existence nor is the preservation of His Word limited to one set of words in any language. If you say it is then please explain why this "underlining" text that you keep citing was collated from 6-10 imperfect and vastly different mss.

 

You have a MO perspective of Christianity but not much of the larger picture.

The fact of the matter is that you are absolutely wrong is you were to come and visit where I live. If you want to get right down to it, the vast majority of churches live their lives like true atheists. The majority of Christians never lead one person to Christ in their entire life and even less know what to do with a new believer. They are practical liberals in their beliefs. They show what they truly believe by the proof of their faith. Many Christians claim that they lead people to Christ but never truly disciple them. They leave them as babies only to flounder like a fish on a rock. They leave that work up to the Holy Spirit which God has given us. In Acts 20:28 the word declares that the Holy Spirit has made us the overseers. We do not make the Holy Spirit the overseer. Just come to where I live and I will show you KJVO churches that do little to nothing to win the lost. It is the largest churches that are the most evangelistic. Everyone of the KJVO churches where I live are doing nothing but sitting in the holy huddle. Their view of evangelism is an annual “revival meeting” where someone comes in a gives ‘em the juice so they can feel guilty enough to hopefully say something. In fact some of the older men and women of one KJVO church in town don’t quite like their younger pastor because he declares to them that evangelism is a personal responsibility. They don’t want to accept that as their personal responsibility.

What would you think if I told you that in all of the churches I pastored I taught people to share their faith and to follow up on people who were weaker in the faith? Every church grew. I have never preached from the KJV. Many times I have preached directly from the Greek NT.

 

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Dr. Bob,

That all depends on what one's belief and opinion is in the actual preserved words of God, doesn't it? I believe that the modern versions are a corruption of God's pure and holy and preserved words, as shown by the evidence. You and many others do not believe this. I do not consider that all the versions are God's perfect pure words of truth and you have no right to tell me I must. This is a DEBATE ISSUE.

Also Dr. Bob, that snip was in relation to a statement that was clearly indicating my personal belief and reason why I did not purchase them. You are being unreasonable, and totally unfair.

Are you now going to clip your own post, for calling my attack (which is your opinion) vile, and evil? Did I personally attack or accuse you Dr. Bob, like you just did me? It is okay. I expect much and am used to it.

Anyway, I still love you Brother Bob, and I pray the Lord will continue to bless you with peace that surpasses all understanding.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

It is characterized by belief in the Bible as the final authority, affirmation/defense of the core doctrines of the Bible, and the willingness to separate from those deny or pervert the core doctrines of the Bible or compromise with ungodliness.

The fundamentalists movement started in response to rank liberalism in the late 1800's. The original fundamentalists took a strong stand against the schools of higher criticism and embraced lower criticism. The difference in the two basically being that the latter held that the Bible was indeed God's Word while the former didn't. The LC's like W&H tried to devise methods for knowing exactly what the words of the original were. The HC's spent most of their time explaining away all the doctrines they didn't like and everything that was supernatural.

"The Fundamentals" were a collation of essays that brought the movement into focus. They were edited by RA Torrey and were authored by Congregationalists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Baptists, and maybe some others. They quoted scripture from the KJV, ASV, and RV.

Michelle, You apparently know nothing about the men who created the KJV do you? NONE of them were fundamental in all of their beliefs. The collator of the TR was a Roman Catholic. The translators of the KJV were all scholars of the Church of England which believed among other things in a form of baptismal regeneration.

The most "fundamental" group of translators ever assembled to translate the Bible into English were those that translated the NASB. They were not liberals in any respect. The NIV was a co-op between conservative and moderate evangelicals... which is why I don't trust it.

My understanding is that the NKJV was also translated by conservatives and fundamentalists.

You are deceived if you believe this. Fundamentalists are not, nor have they ever been, version onlyists. Using the KJV was NOT a fundamental when Torrey et al. penned "The Fundamentals" and it is not a fundamental now.

KJVOnlyism is a disease that entered the fundamentalist movement primarily in the '70's. The great fundamentalists prior to then were not KJVO.

 

Michelle,
If I were to call your belief in the KJVo "demonic", I would get the exact same warning from the board.

I know you feel like it is a debate issue, but others here feel like you are stepping on the Word of God, just as passionately as you feel like they are corrupt. We can debate the issues of accuracy and whether or not we have the Word of God in all or just one English translation without resorting to what is blasphemy to the opposite side. Do you see what I mean by this?

I am simply trying to help you understand that it is NOT your belief in the KJVo position, it is that we MVers do not want what we consider the Word of God made out to be "corrupt" no more than you want the KJVo position to be called "demonic" or whatever personal insult.

The reason the KJVo's apparently wind up getting into more trouble is because MVers also believe the KJV is the Word of God. You do NOT believe the MV's are the Word of God. So, by default you will insult our Bibles more than we insult yours because we believe they all are the Word of God. I think that is the reason that statistically you will find that the curtain falls on the KJVo crowd more often. We as MVers don't dare call the KJV "corrupted" because we know it is not.

I'm trying to help you see why it appears that you are being singled out. If I were to tell you that you were wrong or you were to tell me I was wrong. Then that is not a personal attack on what is considered by someone on the board as a Holy Bible.

I hope that helps enlighten your position some. Stick to the fact that you do not believe in the accuracy of the MV's and you're okay. Just do not be condemning them to many good Christians who do accept them as the Word of God.

[ April 03, 2004, 02:06 AM: Message edited by: Phillip ]

 

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Dr. Bob,

Just for your info. in case you were unaware, I was responding to another poster who indicated to me that these threads were not a democracy, but a dictatorship. I was responding to his post, and I honestly didn't even know who it was that snipped my quote. So I was not personally attacking you. Stop being so sensitive, and lighten up.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

--------------------------------------------------
Dr. Bob quoted:

We've been having debates over "Versions" for nearly 4 years on this forum prior to your joining. Many folks on both sides and every nuance in-between. But we use restraint and language that drives home a point without attack.

You've been warned, Michelle. Next move will show where your heart is and whether you opt to follow the simply rules of conduct on the BB.
--------------------------------------------------

Dr Bob,

First I would like to say that I hope you hold yourself to these same standards and rules. What happens to you if you don't? Who is checking you against these rules? Anyone? Quite honestly, you have been very rude to me and others on many occasions and your own conduct has been questionable, and this seems to me to be quite hypocrital. Your rudeness has not bothered me, but the hypocracy does. Can I also warn you? I gather not, since I am not in the position of being the moderator.

How do you know where my heart is? My Lord tells me, only he knows what is in my heart. You, nor anyone else here, knows what is in my heart. You may be the judge on these threads, but you are not the judge of where my heart is. I hope that this will not get me banned, but I did need to reply to this.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle, The rules govern this board and the moderators are the enforcers of the rules. They are the rightful authority here and we all should submit. I have been called down before... and like you, I thought the moderator was allowing his bias on Bible versions to cause him to be more critical of me... I was mostly wrong, as are you.

 

Actually, I suspect that its considered some sort of badge of honor by some KJVO folks to be thrown off the BB for attacking the modern versions of God's Word.

HankD

 

Michelle: "Is this a dictatorship in here?"

You betcha your booties.
The Prime Dictator (the owner of this personal
property) is Webmaster.
The Middle Level Dictators are: Dr. Bob, Barnabass,
and Clint.
The Petty Dictators are all the moderators.
These are listed on the Forum pages.

These people have no control over what you can say
elsewhere (like in public places) but have
total 100% control over what you say. And BTW, they
are being a lot more lenient for you than i've ever
seen them be for anybody.

If one wants freedom of speach, buy or rent a bank
of computers used as servers and have one's own
bulletin board. I've been there, done that, and
it costs more than it is worth.

The Baptist Board is a private place
and there is no freedom of speach here.
And it is disrespectful to fight that status
in the private place.

 

YEs, just as i wear the
badge of honor for getting kicked of a
King James Bible Only (KJBO) board
for quoting the Real KJV, the KJV1611 edition.
Well, actually i just got the KJV1611
verse edited off, i got kicked off for
griping about the editing. Seems that
private boards can do whatever they want
to do and can do it without warning, if they
wish.

 

ScottJ: "KJVOnlyism is not only a false doctrine
but possibly the disease that will truly destory
Fundamentalism in America."

Oh My, Brother ScottJ -- alas you are right :(

WHen Jerry Falwell of Thomas Road Baptist Church
in Virginia was a Fundamentalist (before he
became a succes so got booted out
by the pseudo-fundies) -- Falwell warned about
majorilng on the minors. The examples he used
were KJVO and skirt wearing for women.

Michelle: "God has the power, authority and reason
to preserve his word of truth
to those he loves through his providence. This
I beleive 100%."

I believe it Twenty-thousand percent (20,000%) :thumbs
I believe it for about 200 English versions
which includes three different KJVs.

 

Amen Brother Ed, my point exactly.

HankD