If you had checked out the link on Cushing Disease carefully, you would know that most people with Cushings become diabetic, especially as it becomes more advanced. I had uncontrolled diabetes (drugs could not control it, nor did careful eating) until the tumor was removed. My diabetes was immediately controllable after the surgery, and cleared up completely within six months.
Would you support the baptism of a KKK leader if they had no intention of leaving racism behind?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Baptist Believer, Jul 25, 2019.
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A candidate needs to repent of obvious sin
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A candidate should understand how the call of Jesus will affect their lifestyle
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A candidate should be received without baptism
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A candidate's desire to follow Jesus should be the only criterion
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A candidate should be received into membership, but immediately face church discipline
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A candidate should not be received into membership but watchcare status, pending change in lifestyle
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My insights are expressed in a post below
Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
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Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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GoodTidings Well-Known Member
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GoodTidings Well-Known Member
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Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
To take this closer to home, I have had extended family members from previous generations who manifested the fruit of the Spirit but had a strong aversion toward people of another ethnic group. It was a blind spot that was culturally enforced throughout the childhood and most of their adult lives. They heard preachers preach of the "curse of Ham" and they followed the notes in the Scofield Bible that condemned the entire continent of Africa.
Their racism was rooted in theological error and the norms of the Jim Crow South. God knows their hearts, their intentions, their understanding, and is likely quite gracious toward those failures. -
If a person has the ability to obtain all the food he/she wants, (Especially one who raises his/her own food)while not depriving someone else, he/she isn't actually a glutton, according to the Scriptural definition. The Hebrew word rendered "glutton" in many Bible versions is "zabal", which means "worthless or vile".
And I know many hefty people who aren't over-eaters, so we can't just simply say, "That person is quite-fat; must be a glutton."
Of course, feasting while your neighbor goes hungry is always wrong.
And I know there are people in many parts of the world that are in a famine, but it's next-to-impossible to get food to them because of many circumstances, not the least of which is they're in an enemy nation.
But remember what the HOLY SPIRIT had Paul write, to not judge others on account of what they ate or how much. But he also had Paul remind people to not be gluttons at Communion so that some went hungry. -
Well, I think the person joining the church should of course repent of all sins; it is the duty of the church to explain grace and forgiveness.
For #2 I do think the preacher should Express how important it is to serve others as Jesus did. And also to help around the church, whatever you can do.... pull weeds, clean bathrooms, bring food, all the while getting to know the others you worship with. WE are the church, so we must be united.
I'll stop here, but I will throw in that we should always be open for all. (Unless of course the said person is interrupting or bothering others.) I would hate to turn someone away who is looking for acceptance and love. Sometimes it takes time for one to be truly saved, but they did show up looking for something.. -
Still, I believe your case and others are the exception to the rule.
As to the o/p question - if there was no outward manifestation of a diminishing of the demonstration of racism - no, if there was insistence i would suggest he/she go elsewhere to be baptized.
there is really no such thing as racism. there is one race, the human race.
Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
there is manufactured "racial" supremacy as was shown in the last world war - Arian Supremacy and Yamoto Supremacy.
Yes there is some of the sin of white supremacy as well as black supremacy in America.
Back in the 60's i was accosted in the city of Boston and was called "a blue eyed devil" by blacks.
i was young and athletic and escaped them before they were able to beat me.
this is the sin of the Pride of Life. -
Two Confederate generals who were devout Christians were Stonewall Jackson & J. E. B. Stuart.
Stonewall Jackson, before the war, taught slaves & their children how to read & write. His family owned 6 slaves; three, a mother & 2 sons, they received as gifts, 2 of the othere each requested he purchase them, as they'd heard of his kindness, while the last was an orphaned "special needs" child. He educated all of them, treating them as paid servants instead of slaves. One of the men served as his orderly thruout the Civil war til Stonewall died, & was at his side at his death.
However, SJ was quite-opposed to the Emancipation Proclamation. He asked, "Where will those people go & how will they earn a living when their massas turn them out?" That's why he was against the EP because no provisions had been made for the care of the former slaves once they were free. BUT YET, SOME IDIOTS WANNA REMOVE ALL PUBLIC STATUES OF SJ & RE-NAME SCHOOLS, ETC. THAT WERE NAMED AFTER HIM ! !
Stuart believed the same as SJ, except he was opposed to slavery, period. He fought for states' rights for Virginia, as did Gen'l's Jackson & Lee. He was also known to have treated blacks kindly, but not to the extent Jackson did.
Something that had been ingrained in all 3 of those generals - they believed blacks were inferior in intelligence, though not thru any fault of their own. Lee pointed out that, before they'd been brought over as slaves, they'd lived a primitive existence, & that God had simply made them with lower intelligence. That had been taught to those men all their lives, handed down thru several generations. But it was apparent those men did not hate blacks, nor sought to oppress them. -
OnlyaSinner Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I did not participate in the poll, as I think baptism and church membership should be considered separately. With one exception, folks being baptized in the Baptist (or fully baptistic "Bible" churches) I've attended have had meeting(s) with the pastor to discern whether their profession of faith was real - within the limits of human discernment, of course. Only then were they baptized. (The exception came at a baptism when the sister of one being baptized was moved by the Holy Spirit to receive Christ as Savior. That limited human discernment concluded that the profession was real and she was baptized immediately - and has had a fruitful Christian walk since then.)
Answering the basic OP question, I would ask such a candidate for baptism how he/she reconciled being God's child with racist activities, to determine as much as possible the reality of salvation. As noted above by others, I have a hard time believing that, in today's world, one could be truly saved while practicing such open discrimination for no other reason than skin color or ethnicity. Probably I would not baptize such an unrepentant candidate, so as not to cause others to stumble due to the candidate's un-Christian walk.
Applicants for membership should be in agreement with the fundamental portions of a church's doctrinal statement and be willing to tolerate any minor differences without murmuring. The same goes for things like church polity and Bible-based standards within the local church's "founding" documents. (Quotes, because the base foundation of any truly Christian church is Christ.) -
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Reformed, if I understand you correctly, I definitely agree. The only biblical reason I see for not baptizing someone is that we don't accept their profession as credible. If someone displays defiance to continue in sin, that calls the profession of faith in question, in my opinion.
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We hear this all the time that certain diseases cause body FAT.
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This thread has taken a rabbit trail into the absurd. I guess this thread proves that even the most inane topics can be debated ad infinitum, ad nauseaum, reductio ad absurdum. Many individuals are saved from lifestyles marked by destructive behavior such as substance abuse (drugs and alcohol) and even gluttony. Must we wait until they have been sober for an indefinite period of time before administering baptism? Is it not enough that they have repented of their sins and are beginning their new life as a disciple of Jesus Christ? This is a far cry from a person who professes faith in Christ while at the same time displaying defiance by unapologetically continuing in their sinful behavior. Give it a rest.
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Acts 2:37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 ¶ And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
In Acts 8 we have the example of how Simon was dealt with by the apostles:
Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 ¶ Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
I seems to me Baptism should follow an repentant confession of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Discipleship, teaching, correction and church discipline are to follow. As for the KKKer I would talk privately with him about the his attitude. I usually wait a week or two before baptizing to arrange things, invite family and friends, talk with parents if the baptism canidate is a child and deal with questions like the OP. -
RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
Take a trip around the world today and throughout history and you will see that racism abounds. The world is, without a doubt, full of "tribal" prejudice. You will likely find that common to all is the notion that the prejudice is justified.
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