Mark Driscoll to speak at Rick Warren conference.

[Revmitchell]

Actually, Driscoll is a leader in the Emergent movement, not a "profound expositor of God's word".

Curtis, if you have the time, check out Chris Rosebrough's "Fighting for the Faith" podcast. He takes on men like Driscoll and the Emergents all the time.

He has nothing to do with the Emergent movement. Which is vastly different than the Emerging movement he is part of. I support neither. But the Emerging errors in methodology while Emergent are full blown heretical liberals. Driscoll while misguided on a number of things dealing with methodology holds to very conservative theology in a great many areas. Bottom line is Driscol is not an Emergent.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

He has nothing to do with the Emergent movement. Which is vastly different than the Emerging movement he is part of. I support neither. But the Emerging errors in methodology while Emergent are full blown heretical liberals. Driscoll while misguided on a number of things dealing with methodology holds to very conservative theology in a great many areas. Bottom line is Driscol is not an Emergent.

I disagree.

 

[matt wade]

he was very immature at the outset of his ministry. he has grown quite a bit. The emerging church is problematic but he does hold to some very conservative theology.

If he has grown out of the statements in that book, and no longer believes them, what has he done to take that book out of print? I know that if I put out a book with those words in it, then later repented of writing it, I would do all I could to get the book out of print and disassociate myself with it. Mark Driscoll, however, still actively promotes that book.

 

[annsni]

If he has grown out of the statements in that book, and no longer believes them, what has he done to take that book out of print? I know that if I put out a book with those words in it, then later repented of writing it, I would do all I could to get the book out of print and disassociate myself with it. Mark Driscoll, however, still actively promotes that book.

Remember that the book is called "Confessions of a Reformission Rev." and in it, he speaks of his past growth and mistakes he made. Take a quote about what he formerly believed, take it out of context and "boom" - you have a quote that makes him seem terrible. But let us see the quote in context and I can just about guarantee you that it's not what he said. The book is good - but it's showing his past mistakes and how he's grown. Of course he's going to still promote it.

Brother Curtis will still continue to post here even with all of the things he's said before that can hurt him. But of course those things were not true, were they?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Brother Curtis will still continue to post here even with all of the things he's said before that can hurt him. But of course those things were not true, were they?

They seem to be true. The gates of Hell could not hurt Christ's church, I'm not sure why you are so worried about me. Seems like you are taking this stuff personally. And yes, I will still post. And yes, Matt Wade asks an excellent question.

 

[preachinjesus]

Actually, Driscoll is a leader in the Emergent movement,

No he's not a leader in this movement. He's not even a participant with the movement much anymore. He (like many of us) have moved on since the Emergent group since they have offered nothing substantive in terms of methodology and have defaulted to old, washed up liberalism in terms of theology.

If you believe he is part of this movement it just goes to show you have no idea what this movement is or who is involved with it.

not a "profound expositor of God's word".

Yeah, you have no clue what you're talking about here. Take some time, seriously, take some time and go and download a couple of his sermons and listen to them. They take about an hour or so a piece and are loaded with sound exeposition and hearty theological insight. If you are saying he's some kind of vapid, self-consumed, surface preacher than you really are showing your ignorance on this matter.

I challenge you to download some sermons, listen to them, and the come back and show me where they are not profound.

 

[annsni]

Nope. There is hardly a complete sentence from me in your quote.

Other people have verified there are problems in Driscoll's ministry.

Does he still teach his flock how to brew beer ?

I don't know if he does but since there's no Scriptural command against it, what is the problem?

Are there any people saying that there are issues in his ministry today or are they still working off of the old stuff. Just goes to show that Christians always remember and never forgive, huh?

 

[preachinjesus]

Other people have verified there are problems in Driscoll's ministry.

Okay, show us. Straight up. Show us. Not links. Show us. Right here, right now.

Otherwise you are questioning the honesty, integrity, and earnestness of a preacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ who has done nothing to warrant these questions. He has moved on and has produced a Gospel centered, God fearing, Scripture based ministry winning thousands to Christ and growing God's Kingdom.

Does he still teach his flock how to brew beer ?

I haven't heard it lately, but as I recall his recipe was pretty good.

We need good, Christ honoring beer. Otherwise it isn't worth it. :thumbs:

 

[annsni]

Here's the emerging heretics own words about the best way to present God to the unbeliever. Tell me what part of this is heresy:

Q: What makes the best 'case for God' to a skeptic or non-believer, an open-minded seeker, and to a person of faith and Why?

Answer
Jesus.

Christianity is not first and foremost about a sacred place to pilgrimage to, a philosophical system to ponder, a moral code to live, a religious tradition to honor, or an impersonal god to experience. Rather, Christianity is about a person who claimed to be the only God and said he would prove his unprecedented claim by living without sin, dying for sinners, and conquering death through resurrection.

So, as Christians, our aim is not to convince people of some god in general, but to introduce them to Jesus in particular. And since he created us with the ability to communicate, think, love, and experience, Christians have always valued using every means by which the truth and love of Jesus can be revealed.

Helpful to this end is using the evidence for a personal Creator who handcrafted our world for human life by explaining the principles of intelligent design and such things as the fine-tuning argument and the argument for irreducible complexity. These show that our world is a gift to be enjoyed worshipfully and stewarded wisely.

It is also important that people learn to understand how God speaks uniquely and authoritatively through the Bible. Acts that can aid in this include giving away Bibles (along with helpful Christian books) as gifts for people to simply read, bringing people to church to listen to the Bible preached, inviting people to small groups and classes to ask their questions about the Bible, and recommending good podcasts that would bring the Bible into the daily rhythm of their commutes, exercise workouts, and the like.

On a more practical level, acts of truly selfless compassion--done not for fame, notoriety, or to merit God's approval, but done out of love for someone--help to reveal a small measure of God's loving, merciful, compassionate nature. In a world where people use one another far more frequently than they love one another, these kinds of acts can be signs pointing to the God who is altogether good. As one example, in our church filled mainly with young people, we have put much effort into weeping with and serving the hundreds and hundreds of victims of molestation and rape.

Thus, informing the mind about Scripture, explaining the world and our place in it under God, and extending a hand of loving compassion all help to give people a framework by which to interpret their life experiences. They can begin to see that God has made them, wants to speak with them, and desires restored relationship with them, relationship that otherwise remains broken through sin.

While each of these ways of informing someone's understanding is important, none is alone sufficient. That is because what they leave us with is knowledge about God by revealing what he has done (creation), how he communicates (the Bible), and what he seeks (relationship). But we still do not enjoy that relationship.

This leads us to Jesus.

Christianity has always held, based upon the teachings of Jesus and the prophets of the Old Testament and apostles of the New Testament, that in Jesus, the Creator has entered into creation on a rescue mission for the restoring of relationship, in fulfillment of Scripture. For making the three most unprecedented claims in the history of the world--that he was without sin as the only God and the only path to salvation--Jesus was treated without compassion. He was lied about, arrested, falsely tried, beaten, whipped beyond recognition, nailed to a cross, and lifted up for a crowd to mock, jeer, and spit upon. Jesus our Creator then, with bloodied lips, spoke the word "forgive" for his murderers. Jesus died to pay the penalty for sin as the greatest act of compassion the world has or will ever witness; the Creator died for his creation, to make enemies friends.

Three days later, Jesus rose, conquering sin and death and vindicating his claims. Subsequently, if Jesus is dead, so is Christianity. If Jesus is alive, so is Christianity. And so while there is no "best case" for presenting God, there are false ways of presenting God: as anyone in addition to or other than Jesus Christ. As Christians, our goal is never to lie to people by only telling them what they want to hear, or manipulating them to feel what they want to feel. Instead, we want to respect them enough to tell them the truth, and love them enough to do so in a way that is compassionate. We care more about the truth and the love than having the "best case." We believe that there is power in the truth about Jesus that can unleash new life in people as they agree with the truth about him.

from http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/...se_for_god_a_response_to_karen_armstrong.html

 

[preachinjesus]

The whole emerging/emergent thing is so over, I don't know why some are getting tied up in it so much. Honestly it boggles the mind.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Okay, show us. Straight up. Show us. Not links. Show us. Right here, right now.

Read the thread.

Otherwise you are questioning the honesty, integrity, and earnestness of a preacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ who has done nothing to warrant these questions. He has moved on and has produced a Gospel centered, God fearing, Scripture based ministry winning thousands to Christ and growing God's Kingdom.

I can't ask questions ? I see a few guys more interested in looking "cool" to the world than anything else. I don't apologize for their first impressions.

I haven't heard it lately, but as I recall his recipe was pretty good.

We need good, Christ honoring beer. Otherwise it isn't worth it. :thumbs:

I rest my case.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I don't know if he does but since there's no Scriptural command against it, what is the problem?

There's no command to refrain from teaching the Watusi, either. But if a church was teaching it, I would be posting it up here.

Are there any people saying that there are issues in his ministry today or are they still working off of the old stuff. Just goes to show that Christians always remember and never forgive, huh?

It's not up to me to forgive. He hasn't offended me. He is free to preach whatever he wants to, and you are free to listen to whatever you want to.

I haven't seen him distance himself from his prior teachings. You would think someone would post that, first and foremost.

 

[preachinjesus]

Read the thread.

I just did, its only 4 pages, I have yet to see your issues and proof that he is the heretic you branded him. Show us, not with links, but with proof of your claims.

I can't ask questions ? I see a few guys more interested in looking "cool" to the world than anything else. I don't apologize for their first impressions.

I'm all for asking questions, I ask a lot of them myself. What is different here is you have already branded this pastor a heretic. That is a strong libelous claim from a follower of Christ. So we have been asking you to show up and show us proof for your claims.

It is a very harsh claim to say someone is a heretic. Especially of a God ordained, pastor of the Gospel.

I rest my case.

I would like to see some evidence that Pastor Driscoll has done that. Then I would like to see the Scripture where it is wrong. To my memory Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine. Show me where the Bible teaches us that beer is mortal, heretical sin.

The gauntlet has been laid, will you take it up? Otherwise you have just called a fine gospel preacher a heretic for no reason...and should be ashamed.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I just did, its only 4 pages, I have yet to see your issues and proof that he is the heretic you branded him. Show us, not with links, but with proof of your claims.

It wasn't just me, and I don't allow myself to get bossed around. Pound sand.

I'm all for asking questions, I ask a lot of them myself. What is different here is you have already branded this pastor a heretic. That is a strong libelous claim from a follower of Christ. So we have been asking you to show up and show us proof for your claims.

It is a very harsh claim to say someone is a heretic. Especially of a God ordained, pastor of the Gospel.

I didn't make the claim lightly.

I would like to see some evidence that Pastor Driscoll has done that. Then I would like to see the Scripture where it is wrong. To my memory Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine. Show me where the Bible teaches us that beer is mortal, heretical sin.

You are putting words into my mouth.

The gauntlet has been laid, will you take it up? Otherwise you have just called a fine gospel preacher a heretic for no reason...and should be ashamed.

I don't feel shame. I have no regrets.

 

[preachinjesus]

I didn't make the claim lightly.
You are putting words into my mouth.

No, you called a man of God a heretic.

You called him, from the other thread

Mark Driscoll is a serious heretic, as I pointed out in the other thread.

available here: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63625&page=9 post #82

Prove it or apologize. You don't get to walk around libeling people.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

No, you called a man of God a heretic.

You called him, from the other thread
available here: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63625&page=9 post #82

Prove it or apologize. You don't get to walk around libeling people.

How about you prove he isn't a wordly preacher. Prove he has stopped cussing, prove he has stopped telling his flock how to be acceptable to the world. Prove he teaches biblical separation. How about you disprove anything in the first link I supplied.

You have no authority over me to issue commands, despite whatever you do think of yourself.

 

[annsni]

How about you prove he isn't a wordly preacher. Prove he has stopped cussing, prove he has stopped telling his flock how to be acceptable to the world. Prove he teaches biblical separation. How about you disprove anything in the first link I supplied.

You have no authority over me to issue commands, despite whatever you do think of yourself.

Have you ignored my posting of him in the Washington Post for a reason?

 

[annsni]

Here's more of Driscoll:

I believe that humility is the great omission and failure in my eleven years of preaching. I believe that this is my greatest oversight both in my example and in my instruction.
I therefore do not claim to be humble. I do not claim to have been humble. I am convicted of my pride, and I am a man who is by God’s grace pursuing humility.

So in many ways this is a sermon that I’m preaching at myself, this is a sermon you are welcomed to listen in on as I preach to myself.

But I truly believe that were there one thing I could do over in the history of Mars Hill it would be in my attitude and in my actions and in my words to not only emphasize sound doctrine, encourage in strength and commitment and conviction but, to add in addition to that, humility as a virtue.

And so I’ll start by asking your forgiveness and sincerely acknowledging that this has been a great failure.

And I believe that it is showing up in our church in the lives of men and women who have sound doctrine but not sound attitude. They may contend for good things but their motives are bad and their methods are bad and their tone is bad and their tactics are bad and their actions are bad because their attitudes are bad even though their objective is sometimes good. I see this in particular with the men. I see this with men young and old, men who have known Jesus for a long time and should know better, and men who are new to Jesus and are learning sometimes the hard way.

I will take some responsibility for this. Luke 6:40 says that when fully trained, disciples are like their teacher, and I am primary teaching pastor of this church and I can’t simply look at the pride in some of our people and say that I am in no way responsible or complicit.

I’m a guy who is pretty busted up over this personally and it really came to my attention last December just in time for Christmas. The critics really brought me a lot of kind gifts of opposition and hatred and animosity. Merry Christmas. And some of those most vocal and nasty critics were Christians – some of them prominent Christians. So I was getting ready to fire back (my usual tactics). They hit you, you hit them twice and then blog about your victory. Which I don’t have any verses for and don’t say it was a good idea. But it had been a pattern in my life until a man named C.J. Mahaney called.

I’d always considered humility to be cowardice and a compromise. In the name of humility you give up biblical conviction and passion and the willingness to contend for the faith (Jude 3) and to fight false teaching. What he was describing was orthodoxy in belief and humility in attitude and that those two together are really what God desires. And so it got me thinking and studying and praying through pride and humility and repenting and learning and growing. So I would start by saying that I thank my dear friend C.J. Mahaney for his ongoing friendship and the kindness he has extended to me and the things I’ve been able to learn through his instruction.

Furthermore, I apologize and repent publicly to you, the church for whom I am responsible, for much pride in the history of my ministry that some of you have poorly imitated and for that I am deeply sorry.

And thirdly, to say that I’m not a humble man but as result of study I’m a man who is acknowledging his pride and pursuing humility by God’s grace.

– Mark Driscoll, sermon on Philippians 2:1-11 (November 4, 2007), part 5 in The Rebel’s Guide to Joy in Humility (3:16-8:40)

 

[Bro. Curtis]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11punk-t.html

To Ann, I didn't ignore it. It simply doesn't address any questions posed so far. It doesn't disprove my assertion that he is a worldly preacher. Even Benny Hinn gives a Christ centered message.

Preachers are not above criticism. They are not to be revered. Mark Driscoll seems to care more about looking cool than getting people saved. Then again, if you subscribe to his Calvinist teachings, people can't be saved. They are either born saved, or doomed from the start, eh ?

 

[annsni]

If you'd like to take the time to listen to what he has to say about the Emerging Church, you can hear an entire message from two years ago here: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/religionsaves/emerging-church