Mark Driscoll to speak at Rick Warren conference.

[Bro. Curtis]

The article I posted is from last January. Nope. This is fun, but I'm going to hear a bible-based message from a guy I'm sure most of the world will never hear of, and most of those that do know him, hate him. Like scripture says they will.

See ya !!!!

 

[annsni]

The article I posted is from last January. Nope. This is fun, but I'm going to hear a bible-based message from a guy I'm sure most of the world will never hear of, and most of those that do know him, hate him. Like scripture says they will.

See ya !!!!

Well, you've just proven that you are spreading lies about someone with no support whatsoever other than quotes taken out of context. Apparently we have both of the books that are listed in your second link and, while I can't find one right now (I'll be looking again in a couple of minutes), let's take a look at the quotes from "The Radical Reformission":

Why the confusion in Driscoll’s church?

“I also did not explain in written form that we were theologically conservative and culturally liberal, which caused great confusion because half of the church was angry that the other half was smoking, while the other half was angry that I taught from the Bible.” (Confessions, p.46)

(Driscoll also writes about being “culturally liberal yet theologically conservative” in his book, “Radical Reformission,” p.22)

I don't know what the issue is but in this section, he's addressing the dealings of Christians of the Gospel, Culture and the Church. He explains what the Gospel, the culture and the church are and how different approaches to addressing all 3 create different dynamics. He shows:

Gospel + Culture - Church = Parachurch
Culture + Church - Gospel = Liberalism
Church + Gospel - Culture = Fundamentalism

He then says "Reformission is a gathering of the best aspects of each of these types of Christianity: living in the tension of being Christians and churches who are culturally liberal yet theologically conservative and who are driven by the gospel of grace to love their Lord, brothers and neighbors."

In speaking of liberalism, he says just before the above (so it's on page 21):
"Second, some churches are so concerned with being culturally relevant that, though they are deeply involved in the culture, they neglect the gospel. They convert people to the church and to good works, but not to Jesus. This is classic liberal Christianity, and it exists largely in the dying mainline churches. The success of these ministries lies in that they are involved in the social and political fabric of their culture, loving people and doing good works. Their failure is that they bring to the culture a false gospel of accommodation, rather than confrontation, by seeking to bless people as they are rather than calling them to a repentant faith that transforms them. Often the motive for this is timidity because , as Paul says, the gospel is foolish and a stumbling block to the unrepentant. Liberal Christians are happy to speak of institutional sin but are reticent to speak of personal sin because they will find themselves at odds with sinners in the culture."

 

[annsni]

Adam and Eve: “Happy, horny [and] holy?”
“The Bible could end right there [in Genesis], after only two chapters, with the man and woman naked, eating fruit, and trying to fill the earth all by their happy, horny, holy selves.” (Radical Reformission, p.28)
Abraham: “a cowardly old man?”

“As time rolls along, God also works through a cowardly old man named Abraham, who is happy to whore out his loving and beautiful antique of a wife to avoid conflict.” (Radical Reformission, p.28)

Driscoll speaks of Mary and Joseph:

“And to top it all off, God comes to earth. He has a mom whom everyone thinks is a slut, a dad whom they think has the brilliance of a five-watt bulb for believing the ‘virgin birth’ line, and brothers who likely pummel him frequently, because even God would have to get at least one wedgie from his brothers if he were to be fully human.” (Radical Reformission, p.29)

Jesus telling “knock-knock jokes?”

“To the religious leaders, Jesus is a scandal – his followers are felons – and every time they see Jesus, it agitates them that he is always surrounded by a crowd, telling knock-knock jokes to miscreants who love his sense of humor (because his perfection had to have included comedic timing).” (Radical Reformission, p.30)

Jesus kicks off His ministry as a “bartender?”

“Anyway, Jesus shows up at the wedding and begins his public ministry. God has come to earth, and he kicks things off as a bartender.” (Radical Reformission, p.30)

Yep - Driscoll is a bit shocking in what he says but there's nothing "heresy" here. Just matter of fact stuff. Stuff that we might think when we think through some of this stuff. This is in a larger narrative of Jesus' life and why it just might seem strange to some.

 

[annsni]

A steady diet of the things of this world will make us better missionaries?

“I am encouraging Christians on reformission to involve themselves in their local cultures not merely for the purpose of entertainment but primarily for the purpose of education. As a missionary, you will need to watch television shows and movies, listen to music, read books, peruse magazines, attend events, join organizations, surf websites, and befriend people that you might not like to better understand people that Jesus loves.” (Radical Reformission, p.103)

TOTALLY don't understand the issue with this. He's not saying to go sin and such. Hey - We're in a boating/marine community. We also belong to a yacht club and race our boat at times - and even go away with those who are "of the world". Why? To reach the unsaved. The finishing to that paragraph is this:

"I often read magazines intended for teenage girls, not because I need to take tests to discover if I'm compatible with my boyfriend or because I need leg-waxing tips, but because I want to see young women meet Jesus, and so I want to understand them better."

He then goes on:

" Last, reformission understands that Scripture is replete with principles that give us wisdom in our decision making. So as you consider and area of your culture that you are unsure about participating in, these principles will help you determine if that activity would be a particular sin for you. The importance of this matter became clear to me after witnessing the experience of a Christian friend. She is a gifted designer who ran a specialty wedding-invitation business. One of her prospective clients was a homosexual couple seeking to have a same-sex union, and she was torn over whether she should obey the city ordinance that recognized such relationships, or her conscience, which did not permit her to participate. After prayerfully wrestling with the issue, she turned away the prospective clients, and when they asked if it was because they were gay, she told the truth and said that though she had no will will toward them, she was not comfortable with being involved. She soon found herself maligned in the media by various gay-rights advocates and the opposition eventually forced her to shut down her business. As our culture becomes increasingly less tolerant of Christian principles, it is important that God's people operate with discernment, and I hope that the following principles will help guide your cultural decision-making:

* Is it beneficial to me personally or to the gospel in general? (1 Cor. 6:12)
* Will I lose self-control and be mastered by what I participate in? (1 Cor 6:12)
* Will I be doing this in the presence of someone wo I know will fall into sin as a result? (1 Cor. 8:9-10)
* Is it a violation of the laws of my city, state or nation? (Rom. 13:1-7)
* If I fail to do this, will I lose opportunities to share the gospel? (1 Cor. 10:27-39)
* Can I do this with a clear conscience? (Acts 24:16)
* Will this cause me to sin by feeding sinful desires? (Rmans 13:13-14)
* Am I convinced that this is what God desires for me to do? (Rom. 13:5)
* Does my participation proceed from my faith in Jesus Christ? (Rom. 14:23)
* Am I doing this to help other people or am I just being selfish? (1 Cor. 10:24)
* Can I do this in a way that's glorifying to God? ((1 Cor. 10:31-33)
* Am I following the example of Jesus Christ to help save sinners? (1 Cor. 10:33-11:1)

 

[annsni]

Driscoll: Repenting of his sin of abstinence from alcohol?

“After I entered the ministry as a man of legal drinking age, the drum was again repeatedly beaten for me by well-meaning older pastors. So I never drank alcohol until I was thirty years of age. About that time, I was studying the Scriptures for a sermon about Jesus’ first miracle of turning water into wine, as reported in John’s gospel, a miracle that Jesus performed when he was about my age. My Bible study convicted me of my sin of abstinence from alcohol. So in repentance I drank a hard cider over lunch with our worship pastor.” (Radical Reformission, p.146)

Driscoll is clear on alcohol: If abstinence is a “sin,” then beer-brewing lessons at church for the men of the church is a logical end result of such thinking. But in light of Driscoll’s admitted problems with “cussing,” “anger,” “stealing,” etc., is it logical to think that he and the men of his church will be faithful in avoiding drunkenness by always drinking in “moderation?” Below, Driscoll rightly identifies the problems associated with drinking too much alcohol. However, because “self control” will always be a serious problem for sinful humanity, why would any responsible Christian pastor/leader entice the people of God toward such destructive, addictive behavior as alcohol, especially with its long, devastating history? One failure at “moderation,” and any of the below Biblical examples of drunkenness (with the right circumstances) can become an unwanted personal reality.

“Biblical Problems Caused by Drunkenness

· Incest (Gen. 19:32-35)

· Violence (Prov. 4:17)

· Adultery (Rev. 17:2)

· Mockery and brawling (Prov. 20:1)

· Poverty (Prov. 21:17)

· Late night and early morning drinking (Isa. 5:11-12)

· Hallucinations (Isa. 28:7)

· Legendary antics (Isa. 5:22)

· Murder (2 Sam. 11:13-15)

· Gluttony and poverty (Prov. 23:20-21)

· Vomiting (Jer. 25:27; 48:26; Isa. 19:14)

· Staggering (Jer. 25:27; Ps. 107:27; Job 12:25)

· Madness (Jer. 51:7)

· Loudness combined with laughter and then prolonged sleep (Jer. 51:39)

· Nakedness (Hab. 2:15; Lam. 4:21)

· Sloth (Joel 1:5)

· Escapism (Hos. 4:11)

· Depression (Luke 24:34)

· Staying up to party all night (1 Thess. 5:7)”

(Radical Reformission, p.148. Reprinted as it appeared.)

Of course this doesn't address the rest of the section that speaks on alcohol and I think the answer to this: "However, because “self control” will always be a serious problem for sinful humanity, why would any responsible Christian pastor/leader entice the people of God toward such destructive, addictive behavior as alcohol, especially with its long, devastating history? One failure at “moderation,” and any of the below Biblical examples of drunkenness (with the right circumstances) can become an unwanted personal reality. " from above is answered here on page 151:

"Martin Luther poked fun at the logical conclusions of this illogical thinking saying, "Do you suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused? Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?" (footnote 19) His humorous argument makes the point well. Men sin with women, but we should not abolish women. People worship rock stars, but we should not abolish music. People worship food, but we should not abolish grocery stores."

 

[annsni]

So, all that to say, quotes are taken conveniently out of context, as usual.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

No he's not a leader in this movement.

So you say. I disagree.

If you believe he is part of this movement it just goes to show you have no idea what this movement is or who is involved with it.

Then I guess I'm in good company.

Yeah, you have no clue what you're talking about here. Take some time, seriously, take some time and go and download a couple of his sermons and listen to them.

Already heard them.

If you are saying he's some kind of vapid, self-consumed, surface preacher than you really are showing your ignorance on this matter.

Like I said, then I guess I'm in pretty good company.

 

[Aaron]

Yep - Driscoll is a bit shocking in what he says . . .

No, more like insolent and licentious. Neither Christ nor the Apostles took that tone.

. . . but there's nothing "heresy" here. Just matter of fact stuff

No, "matter of fact stuff" can be read in medical journals. His is simply rash and filthy talk, not to mention erroneous.

 

[Revmitchell]

To be fair to Driscoll he repented of his filthy talks some time back.

 

[Aaron]

I'm talking about how he deals with the subject of sex.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Ann, I posted up an article dated after anything you have posted. I have spread no lies about the man. In fact, you may be the one doing so, telling me the ridiculous tale of beer brewing sermons not being banned, in scripture. Also, Christ found a way to be a powerful preacher of the gospel without being offensive, without banning ages 17 and under, and without telling them they their eternity has already been decided.

I am ashamed of his message.

 

[annsni]

Ann, I posted up an article dated after anything you have posted. I have spread no lies about the man. In fact, you may be the one doing so, telling me the ridiculous tale of beer brewing sermons not being banned, in scripture. Also, Christ found a way to be a powerful preacher of the gospel without being offensive, without banning ages 17 and under, and without telling them they their eternity has already been decided.

I am ashamed of his message.

Yes, the article you posted that is dated after the things I posted - it had to be since it referred to the books. But we see that things were taken out of context. You can have your opinion but know that it's not based in fact, OK?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

It's based on the words I read from his own mouth. OK ? That and a few well-trusted critics of his ministry.

 

[fbcodr]

At this point Curtis I believe Jesus Christ would have a difficult time meeting the criteria you lay out for ministry.

Pastor Mark is a fine man, an excellent pastor, and profound expositor of God's Word. Shame on anyone who says differently.

I say different. He's a cussing idiot that has no place behind a pulpit!!!:thumbsup::jesus:

 

[fbcodr]

I don't know if the guy is a heretic, but reading the quotes from the second link make me understand that he is seriously confused. Somehow I don't think that's the way Christians ought to be acting and speaking.

That's not the way for pastors or pew sitters to be acting and speaking!!!:thumbsup::godisgood:

 

[fbcodr]

Which is hard not to do, because they're very much alike.

Driscoll has reaffirmed this testimony since his "reform," which was really only a surface manipulation to escape criticism.

The man is a liar.

Not to mention the other problems!!!:laugh::godisgood:

 

[fbcodr]

No, more like insolent and licentious. Neither Christ nor the Apostles took that tone.

No, "matter of fact stuff" can be read in medical journals. His is simply rash and filthy talk, not to mention erroneous.

AMEN Aaron!!!:thumbsup::jesus:

 

[fbcodr]

To be fair to Driscoll he repented of his filthy talks some time back.

If he truly repented he would not be behind a pulpit so fast!!! Doesn't sound like Biblical repentance to me. Sounds more like oops now back to same oh same oh...:jesus:

 

[Revmitchell]

If he truly repented he would not be behind a pulpit so fast!!! Doesn't sound like Biblical repentance to me. Sounds more like oops now back to same oh same oh...:jesus:

Absurd. not stepping down from the pulpit has no bearing in whether he continues to do it or not. One is not evidence of the other.

 

[sag38]

Now you are feeding a troll Mitch.