John Calvin - Jesus Died For the Whole Human Race

[MennoSota]

I agree with you that a dead man cannot hear God but just hearing God for basic salvation does not make you an overcomer.

What is the difference between basic salvation and advanced salvation?
The same God who raises us and seats us in the heavenlies (Ephesians 2) is the same God who gives us grace each day to overcome. It's not a question of if we will overcome, it's a question of when we will overcome. The matter of overcoming is settled by God's adoption of us and atonement for our sins.

 

[Benoni]

How are they lies? God has called and chosen from all peoples of the world. The elect will persevere and overcome.
Your verses do not say what you are wanting them to say.

God called King David as a boy to rule and reign over God's chosen people. Does that make all chosen people King David? SaviorS will come out of Mt Zion and Zion speaks of the home where the King lives. Most chosen people lived in the promise-land not Mt Zion. The two verses i quoted were speaking of two different groups of people one being the overcomer the other being a great multitude. No where does it say the great multitude are overcomers.

 

[MennoSota]

God called King David as a boy to rule and reign over God's chosen people. Does that make all chosen people King David? SaviorS will come out of Mt Zion and Zion speaks of the home where the King lives. Most chosen people lived in the promise-land not Mt Zion. The two verses i quoted were speaking of two different groups of people one being the overcomer the other being a great multitude. No where does it say the great multitude are overcomers.

I don't follow your train of thought in this post at all.

 

[Benoni]

What is the difference between basic salvation and advanced salvation?
The same God who raises us and seats us in the heavenlies (Ephesians 2) is the same God who gives us grace each day to overcome. It's not a question of if we will overcome, it's a question of when we will overcome. The matter of overcoming is settled by God's adoption of us and atonement for our sins.

There is a universe of difference between being justified by faith and being born again. Both the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailor believed on Christ and were justified from their sins, but I think we would be very wrong to imagine that they had done any more than "receive Him" and, because they had received Him, power was given to them to become sons of God.


What I am looking for my full salvation. Heb 9:28: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (KJV)


Amplified Bible says full salvation


Amplified Bible (AMP) Heb. 9: 28

Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon Himself and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, but to bring to full salvation those who are [eagerly, constantly, and patiently] waiting for and expecting Him.



Thirty, sixty one hundred fold, press towards that mark; God has a deep walk for those who dare go beyond the basics

 

[Benoni]

You claim these believer are overcomers? Show me in scripture? Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; I believe this also includes those Who God never called also.

 

[MennoSota]

There is a universe of difference between being justified by faith and being born again. Both the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailor believed on Christ and were justified from their sins, but I think we would be very wrong to imagine that they had done any more than "receive Him" and, because they had received Him, power was given to them to become sons of God.


What I am looking for my full salvation. Heb 9:28: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (KJV)


Amplified Bible says full salvation


Amplified Bible (AMP) Heb. 9: 28

Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon Himself and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, but to bring to full salvation those who are [eagerly, constantly, and patiently] waiting for and expecting Him.



Thirty, sixty one hundred fold, press towards that mark; God has a deep walk for those who dare go beyond the basics

There is no distinction between God's justification of sins and being a new creation (2 Corinthians 5)/born again.
You seem to be creating a need for Christ to die twice.

 

[Benoni]

There is no distinction between God's justification of sins and being a new creation (2 Corinthians 5)/born again.
You seem to be creating a need for Christ to die twice.

No Jesus died once but you seem to be denying the various levels God has written in the Bible. He that is born of God does not sin. Are you perfect?

 

[Benoni]

If basic salvation is what you try to make it to be everything in God's promises without overcoming then why would we need to press prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Might as well take a nap.
Philippians 3:14King James Version (KJV)
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[MennoSota]

No Jesus died once but you seem to be denying the various levels God has written in the Bible. He that is born of God does not sin. Are you perfect?

There are levels of salvation? If you don't mind, please share where God delineates these levels of salvation? It sounds like you are teaching that we have benchmarks of salvation along the way that we need to get to and if we fail to reach those benchmarks we fail to attain a level that allows us into heaven.

Do you believe in attaining sinless perfection?

I am trying to make sense of your belief system and what scripture you use to create your views. I'm not following your train of thought.

 

[MennoSota]

If basic salvation is what you try to make it to be everything in God's promises without overcoming then why would we need to press prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Might as well take a nap.
Philippians 3:14King James Version (KJV)
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Why would a basketball player keep practicing once he has been declared a basketball player?

We press on to honor God and to fully use the talents He has given us to use. To not do so would be like the person in 1 Corinthians whose rewards are burned up, yet he enters Heaven as the flames of hell luck at him.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
[12]Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw.
[13]But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value.
[14]If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward.
[15]But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

 

[Benoni]

There are levels of salvation? If you don't mind, please share where God delineates these levels of salvation? It sounds like you are teaching that we have benchmarks of salvation along the way that we need to get to and if we fail to reach those benchmarks we fail to attain a level that allows us into heaven.

Do you believe in attaining sinless perfection?

I am trying to make sense of your belief system and what scripture you use to create your views. I'm not following your train of thought.

Are you ignore all these verses I just posted? DO I need to repost? No one ever said you will not reach heaven. You may be part of the great multitude but they to were before the throne.

 

[Benoni]

Why would a basketball player keep practicing once he has been declared a basketball player?

We press on to honor God and to fully use the talents He has given us to use. To not do so would be like the person in 1 Corinthians whose rewards are burned up, yet he enters Heaven as the flames of hell luck at him.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
[12]Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw.
[13]But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value.
[14]If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward.
[15]But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

Getting a prize is not the same as mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Mt Zion is the high place of spiritual development that where the king lives not some baseball player. Maybe your problem is you are so use to defending your bias your spiritual eyes are not wide open.
Luke 3:6: And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

See: (Gk) with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable


See: Strong’s NT:3700

 

[MennoSota]

Getting a prize is not the same as mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Mt Zion is the high place of spiritual development that where the king lives not some baseball player. Maybe your problem is you are so use to defending your bias your spiritual eyes are not wide open.
Luke 3:6: And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

See: (Gk) with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable


See: Strong’s NT:3700

Benoni, it would be helpful if you kept verses in the context of the passage from where they are being taken. One verse out of context is a proof text for your pretext.

We all have bias, but if the context of a passage goes against our bias we will hopefully change our perspective.

I am hoping you can share passages that get your point across. Quoting part of a sentence from one verse is not beneficial. Muslims use that tactic to prove that the Bible prophesied about Muhammad, yet the context easily shows their assertion to be wrong. If you care to discuss, please let us look at full text.

Here's the context around Luke 3.
Luke 3:3-14
[3]Then John went from place to place on both sides of the Jordan River, preaching that people should be baptized to show that they had repented of their sins and turned to God to be forgiven.
[4]Isaiah had spoken of John when he said, “He is a voice shouting in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way for the lord’s coming! Clear the road for him!
[5]The valleys will be filled, and the mountains and hills made level. The curves will be straightened, and the rough places made smooth.
[6]And then all people will see the salvation sent from God.’”
[7]When the crowds came to John for baptism, he said, “You brood of snakes! Who warned you to flee God’s coming wrath?
[8]Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God. Don’t just say to each other, ‘We’re safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.’ That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones.
[9]Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.”
[10]The crowds asked, “What should we do?”
[11]John replied, “If you have two shirts, give one to the poor. If you have food, share it with those who are hungry.”
[12]Even corrupt tax collectors came to be baptized and asked, “Teacher, what should we do?”
[13]He replied, “Collect no more taxes than the government requires.”
[14]“What should we do?” asked some soldiers.John replied, “Don’t extort money or make false accusations. And be content with your pay.”

 

[MennoSota]

Are you ignore all these verses I just posted? DO I need to repost? No one ever said you will not reach heaven. You may be part of the great multitude but they to were before the throne.

I'm sorry, your statement doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Benoni]

Benoni, it would be helpful if you kept verses in the context of the passage from where they are being taken. One verse out of context is a proof text for your pretext.

We all have bias, but if the context of a passage goes against our bias we will hopefully change our perspective.

I am hoping you can share passages that get your point across. Quoting part of a sentence from one verse is not beneficial. Muslims use that tactic to prove that the Bible prophesied about Muhammad, yet the context easily shows their assertion to be wrong. If you care to discuss, please let us look at full text.

You are so hung up with context and I could show you a verse that declares it was God's will Adam sinned and it is no where near the Book of Genesis. But God hides his deep Word from religious.

I did share verses that got the point across but your bias is your religious wall you have constructed to control the truth. If I Quoting part of a sentence from one verse I am sure I posted the verse earlier in our debate. Yes there are times where context is very relevant but there are times when the context of the verses is enough to bring forth a truth. The verse I am mentioning is such a case. God's deep Word is hidden, spiritual and all you man made rules just puts religious walls up so you can remain spiritually blind.

 

[Benoni]

I'm sorry, your statement doesn't make sense to me.

Than you have no understand ing of Mt Zion. Sorry.

 

[MennoSota]

Than you have no understand ing of Mt Zion. Sorry.

It seems you have a personal concept of Mount Zion that is particular to yourself.
I am attempting to follow your cryptic speech, but am not succeeding.

 

[MennoSota]

You are so hung up with context and I could show you a verse that declares it was God's will Adam sinned and it is no where near the Book of Genesis. But God hides his deep Word from religious.

I did share verses that got the point across but your bias is your religious wall you have constructed to control the truth. If I Quoting part of a sentence from one verse I am sure I posted the verse earlier in our debate. Yes there are times where context is very relevant but there are times when the context of the verses is enough to bring forth a truth. The verse I am mentioning is such a case. God's deep Word is hidden, spiritual and all you man made rules just puts religious walls up so you can remain spiritually blind.

I see. You seem to view yourself as an enlightened guru of the dark secrets known only to the few who can break the code. What church do you attend?

 

[Benoni]

It seems you have a personal concept of Mount Zion that is particular to yourself.
I am attempting to follow your cryptic speech, but am not succeeding.

That is because you have been 30 fold and do not see 60 and 100 fold.

 

[MennoSota]

That is because you have been 30 fold and do not see 60 and 100 fold.

Do you work in a blanket factory? How many folds do you do in an average days work? [emoji41]

Benoni, you're very cryptic in your words. How many people are in your compound?