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Am I Calvinist or Arminian?

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M

MB

Well-Known Member
Steven Yeadon said:
I am wrestling with a difficult question. If God wants all saved, what about those that die never hearing the Gospel? They never even found the path to life.
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Every man has been give a measure of faith Romans 1 answers this question.
om 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
There is no one on this earth who will have an excuse because they know. It's inside of us all
MB
 
Reynolds

Reynolds

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MB said:
Every man has been give a measure of faith Romans 1 answers this question.
om 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
There is no one on this earth who will have an excuse because they know. It's inside of us all
MB
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Knowledge does not equal ability to change.
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
According to the Baptist Confession of Faith, 1689:
Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
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The key phrase is: lost ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation.
This means: Has no capacity to choose, by self-will, to become a child of God.


So man cannot do anything of spiritual good to effect his salvation. Says nothing about his ability to choose God. If fact, he might want to choose God, but that is not efficacious to his salvation.
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It says he has no capacity to choose, by self-will, to become a child of God.


Wrong. A person that WANTS TO BE a major league baseball player will try to become one. He will use his free will to practice, practice, play the game, practice, practice, play, play, etc. When it's all said and done the reason why he didn't get picked for an MLB team was because he WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH. God does not operate in this manner. No way, no how.
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That is PRECISELY what human religion tries to do. A self-righteous human will practice, practice, practice to be GOOD ENOUGH so that God will say "well done good and faithful servant." Yet, that person will have practiced for naught because they were not...and cannot...ever good enough to be saved.
God must take that "not good enough" person and choose to make them alive with Christ. God must, by his gracious choice, give them faith to believe.
It is...GOD'S CHOICE to adopt a person and make him/her His child. The human has NO capacity to make that happen. They can practice until they die and if God does not choose to adopt them...they will NOT be adopted.
I suspect you hate the fact that this choice is out of your control. It makes you bristle and fume. Too bad. No matter how much you hate it, you don't get the choice and you never will be given the choice. God, the ruler over all creation, gets to make that choice, completely separate and apart from your opinion.
I know that sounds harsh to you who believes you are entitled. You aren't entitled. You don't get a vote with God. You get what He chooses to give you.
Do you rejoice in the message of reconciliation? Do you have peace that God has removed your sins? Are you no longer in rebellion against God? Do you repent of your sins? Do you believe God has redeemed you? If so, God has chosen you.
If you imagine you are good on your own and aren't a rebel. If you bristle at the thought that you are wretched...you are not chosen to believe at this moment. God may eventually choose you. God may never choose you. That is for God and God alone to decide.
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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Particular said:
That is PRECISELY what human religion tries to do. A self-righteous human will practice, practice, practice to be GOOD ENOUGH so that God will say "well done good and faithful servant." Yet, that person will have practiced for naught because they were not...and cannot...ever good enough to be saved.
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Sure, and trying to be good enough to be saved is a lot different from lacking the ability to choose.

It is...GOD'S CHOICE to adopt a person and make him/her His child. The human has NO capacity to make that happen. They can practice until they die and if God does not choose to adopt them...they will NOT be adopted.
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Agreed.

I suspect you hate the fact that this choice is out of your control.
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#4 and mind reading.

It makes you bristle and fume.
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#4 and mind reading.

No matter how much you hate it
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#4 and mind reading.

I know that sounds harsh to you who believes you are entitled.
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#4 and mind reading.

You aren't entitled. You don't get a vote with God.
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#4
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Sure, and trying to be good enough to be saved is a lot different from lacking the ability to choose.



Agreed.



#4 and mind reading.



#4 and mind reading.



#4 and mind reading.



#4 and mind reading.



#4
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No, trying to be good enough to be saved is exactly what human choosing is. You, by you might and authority, save yourself.
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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davidtaylorjr said:
Correct. Free-will theology is a works-based plan. Unfortunately they can't see that in their own thinking.
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#4 and #5.

Free-will theology, as I know it, is man submitting to God's calling on them to repent. It is not "choosing myself to be saved" or "choosing God to save me".
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
#4 and #5.

Free-will theology, as I know it, is man submitting to God's calling on them to repent. It is not "choosing myself to be saved" or "choosing God to save me".
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Ok, please explain to me free-will Arminian theology. How do we come to faith? Is it us choosing or is it God granting and electing?
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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davidtaylorjr said:
Ok, please explain to me free-will Arminian theology.
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I don't know what Arminian free-will theology is.

How do we come to faith? Is it us choosing or is it God granting and electing?
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It's us hearing the gospel call, submitting (surrendering, acquiescing) to it, and repenting of our unbelief (which God enables us to do.)
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
#4 and #5.

Free-will theology, as I know it, is man submitting to God's calling on them to repent. It is not "choosing myself to be saved" or "choosing God to save me".
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You are actually showing the process of God's choosing.
When God chooses, the child of God submits their rebellion to God and repents.

If God does not choose, the human will not submit or repent.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Reynolds said:
I think I plainly implied man does not have that ability.
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The only problem with that is that Gentiles have been granted repentance unto life.
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
So is God's word mistaken. He also says
.Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

So much for your inability. Unless of course you'd rather argue with God
MB
 
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