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WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 3rdAngel, Sep 17, 2019.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Not sure I understand this post. My view is this passage is talking about people who are like soils 2 and 3 in Matthew 13. They heard and responded, but their faith was lacking (they did not go all in for Christ) and so God did not credit their faith as righteousness.

    Thus the passage refers to believers whose faith was lacking and therefore were never saved.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) My view is the responded to the gospel with belief, but the belief was lacking, like the 2 and 3 soils of Matthew 13, and therefore they were never saved.

    2) I agree to be enlightened does not necessarily mean they are saved, as in this case (Hebrews 6.)

    3) I agree, they were partakers of the Holy Spirit in that they were enlightened with the inspired gospel of Christ, and not indwelt and sealed in Christ.

    4) I agree, tasted may or may not indicate full acceptance. Thus, once again they were never saved because they only tasted but did not "drink" or fully accept the gospel.

    5) I think "fall away" refers to choosing to turn away from full acceptance of the gospel, thus falling away from the opportunity to go "all in" for Christ.

    6) We agree again, the passage makes clear those only tasting the gospel were never saved.
     
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  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    yes, your hand does not sin , Jesus said if it offends thee, or keeps you from Salvation, cut it off
    Your original or base nature , soul, sins
     
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  4. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 6 is talking to Hebrew Believes who did not need the Gospel again but maturity , growth and completion as Christians
     
  5. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    We are given faith in order to respond to the Holy Spirit's persuasion of the need of and the ability of Jesus to save us.
    Our faith increases as we mature, shown by the fruits of the spirit
    If we chose not to exercise faith or believe as the Holy Spirit prompts were are lost and may place our faith in other insufficient things, cares of the world
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    You're still trying to make those Scriptures say what YOU want them to, insteada what they actually say.

    Let's look briefly at some of David's sins. He saw Bathsheba naked & gave in to lust, even after finding out she was married to Uriah. Now Uriah, although a Hittite, seemed to be a worshipper of God, & was completely loyal to David, being one of Dave's top 30 captains.

    In that time/place, women didn't have much say-so over their own bodies, so God didn't hold Bathsheba accountable. When she informed Dave she was pregnant, he gave in to temptation again. After trying unsuccessfully to persuade Uriah to "know" Dathsheba so her pregnancy would appear to be from him, Dave murdered Uriah by arranging for him to die in battle.

    God had had enough! He punished David severely for his sins. The difference in him & Saul was that David never turned his back on God. He admitted his sins & asked God to punish him & no one else for his sins. And God forgave him, but his sins were so severe that He kept punishment coming on David, shortening his life & allowing strife to develop among his sons, including his temporary ouster by Absalom. But God chose his son Solomon, by Bathsheba, as his successor. Again, DAVID NEVER REJECTED GOD !

    Under the New Covenant, Jesus does all the sin-forgiving, and He will forgive them if we sincerely ask Him to. And all of us sin, often without realizing it. And Satan works 24/7 to lure us to sin. he's hoping to tempt us to like sin so much that we turn our backs on Jesus & thus give up our salvation.

    Again, the key is KEEPING OUR FAITH. Now, when one begins deliberately sinning as my late acquaintance did, one has almost always abandoned his/her faith. Again, we have the examples of Saul and David. Saul made light of disobeying God, while David admitted his sins, asked God to forgive him, & accepted his punishment prayerfully.
     
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  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    An
    And God was reminding them of the penalty for abandoning their faith, once received.
     
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  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    not in this chapter

    no, the writer said, you can be re saved unless you re crucify Christ.? Does anyone have the power to do this. Was not Christ death sufficient for all sin?

    Heb 6:1

    Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

    Heb 6:9


    But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
     
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  9. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Disobeying God for the believer breaks fellowship not salvation.
    Rom 8:35
    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword

    Does disappointment with you earthy father make you not his son?
     
  10. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Yep! Now why did he do thatspeak to them in parables......?

    EZEKIEL 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Does he not speak parables?

    MATTHEW 13:10-17
    [10], And the disciples came, and said to him, Why speak you to them in parables?
    [11], He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you (BELIEVERS AND FOLLOWERS) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
    [12], For whoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that he has.
    [13], Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
    [14], And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which said, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive.
    [15], For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
    [16], But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
    [17], For truly I say to you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which you hear, and have not heard them.

    Yep! My point was that the flock of slaughter are all those who do not believe and follow God's Word. Salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word. If we do not believe and follow God's Word we have no salvation and we are not God's Sheep.

    God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.
     
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
    11 And he answered and said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Mt 13

    10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parables.
    11 And he said unto them, Unto you is given the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all things are done in parables:
    12 that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest haply they should turn again, and it should be forgiven them.
    34 and without a parable spake he not unto them: but privately to his own disciples he expounded all things. Mk 4
     
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  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    As posted earlier and shown already through the scriptures it was given them (BELIEVERS AND FOLLOWERS) to know God's Word because they BELIEVED and FOLLOWED what God said. We cannot know God's Word unless God is our teacher and we seek him to know His Words *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; JOHN 6:63; HEBREWS 8:11; 1 JOHN 2:17. We must come through the door to enter into the pasture (the Word) to be His Sheep *JOHN 1:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27. If we do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word then we are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27 because we do not hear His Voice or follow what he says. Hearing they hear and do not understand and seeing they see but do not see...
     
    #112 3rdAngel, Sep 20, 2019
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  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Your misapplication of scripture is horrendous. You utterly fail to follow the most basic first rule of interpretation:

    1. The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.

    The flock of slaughter:

    33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?
    34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
    35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23

    22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
    23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21
     
  14. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Certainly not to give future delusions to some that they have received the special power of insights into private interpretations and understandings who in turn would embark on a heretical mission of proselytizing the necessity of work-based evidence of sinlessness for the assurance of salvation. Because anyone with such an agenda merely demonstrates that the object of their faith is seriously messed up, not placing their trust in Christ and His grace but rather focusing on their own accomplishments for evidence that they have earned their keep …
     
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    I am sorry my friend what is it in the scriptures that have been provided to you that you disagree with that are not true in your view? You have been provided God's Word alone which are not my words but God's Word but you do not believe them. In resoponse you provide your own words here that are your words that are not God's Word. I know who I believe and follow and it is not you.

    Here you seek to know the scriptures through the teaching of men. Yet God says as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my thoughts from your thoughts and my ways from your ways. *Yep more from ISAIAH 55:9.
    Spiritual things are spiritually discerned *1 CORINTHIANS 2:14. If God is not your teacher you will not know him or will you find him and know his ways **JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; JOHN 6:63; HEBREWS 8:11; 1 JOHN 2:17. We must come through the door to enter into the pasture (the Word) to be His Sheep *JOHN 1:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27. If we do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word then we are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27 because we do not hear His Voice or follow what he says. Hearing they hear and do not understand and seeing they see but do not see. The wisdom of this world in order to know God's Word is foolishness with God *1 CORITHIANS 3:19-20; 1 CORITHIANS 1:20; 1 CORINTHIANS 2:6.

    God bless
     
    #115 3rdAngel, Sep 20, 2019
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  16. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. Sadly though at that time it will be too late for many that had the chance to hear and believe God's Word but chose to turn away not knowing the time of their visitiation. Tick tock does the clock time is running out. If you hear His Voice (the Word) harden not your heart as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness.
     
    #116 3rdAngel, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Only those who have not committed there wills to Christ have to worry about not being saved. Examine your selves to see if you be in Christ.
    MB
     
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  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...it's the violence you do to the word of God that I disagree with.
     
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  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    I see. Yet here you still are not able to tell me what it is that you disagree with in the scriptures that have been shared here and in this OP but instead providing your own words which are not God's Word? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. Ignoring God's Word does not make them dissappear.

    Gods Sheep Hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him
     
  20. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Many are called to be messengers of the Gospel of the Grace of God but you would do well to notice that your message is conflict in many areas of understanding the necessity of that grace and your enthusiasm to display your private interpretations of your righteousness and special enlightenment should be taken under consideration that it may just be that you set apart from the rest of us because you are in error...

    Perhaps, could it be possible, that He is speaking about you?
     
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