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When you pray, face Jerusalem

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Ben W, May 20, 2005.

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  1. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    I was intrigued to see that in Islam they face Mecca when they pray, but I have recently learned that the Bible instructs us to pray facing Jerusalem.

    1Kings 8:28-29

    "Yet regard the prayer of Your servant and his supplication, Oh Lord my God, and listen to the cry and the prayer which your servant is praying before you today: that Your eyes may be open towards this temple night and day, toward the place of which You said, 'My name shall be there' and that you may hear the prayer that your servant makes towards this place.

    Daniel 6:10

    Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed he went home, And in his upper room, with his windows open toward Jerusalem, he knelt down upon his knees three times that day, and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as was his custom scince early days.
     
    #1 Ben W, May 20, 2005
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Us?
    We are not Jews. There is no such command for Christians.
     
    #2 DHK, May 20, 2005
  3. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Amen.

    I would recommend an essay by James Arlandson in THE AMERICAN THINKER regarding various holy sites.

    In part, he says:

     
    #3 rsr, May 20, 2005
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    If the Moslem do something, my nature as a Christian would be to do the OPPOSITE. They are worshiping a huge pagan shrine

    If Jews in the OT did it occasionally, more power to them. I am a not a Jew and the mercy seat no longer resides in Jerusalem.

    I pray looking toward my home. Heaven, lifting up my hands to God for His help and His embrace3!
     
    #4 Dr. Bob, May 20, 2005
  5. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    One way of looking at it, is that Christians really are Messianic Jews as we are "grafted in".
     
    #5 Ben W, May 20, 2005
  6. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
    Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
    Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
    Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
    Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    The hour came. I always pray facing God's Spirit.
     
    #6 Artimaeus, May 21, 2005
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    One way of looking at it, is that Christians really are Messianic Jews as we are "grafted in". </font>[/QUOTE]1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

    I don't believe in Messianic Jews, just as I don't believe in Islamic Christians. They are a contradiction of terms. Paul clearly identified three groups of peoples in the New Testament: the church (Christians), the Jew, and the Gentile (the unsaved). Everyone belongs to one of these groups. A person who was a Jew, and is saved no longer is a Jew, but is a Christian. Most of the Epistle of Ephesians is directed to this point, that we are one in Christ, both Jew and Gentile. The pagan Gentile is no longer a pagan Gentile, and the religious Jew is no longer a religious Jew. Once saved, they are Christians, part of the family of God.

    A Muslim who converts is not an Islamic Christian. You wouldn't even suggest that would you? Then why suggest a Messianic Jew? It is the same logic.
    DHK
     
    #7 DHK, May 21, 2005
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    DHK,

    IMO,

    you are partially correct. One who was a religious Jew and becomes a Christian is no longer a religious Jew. However, one does not cease to be ethnically Jewish because one becomes a Christian, and neither should one be ashamed of, or relinquish their secular heritage just because they become a Christian. For example, you did not cease to be Canadian when you became a Christian. I did not cease to be a Jew when I became a Christian.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #8 Joseph_Botwinick, May 21, 2005
  9. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    Face any way you want. Just pray! :D
     
    #9 Soulman, May 21, 2005
  10. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    These are not instructions; they are historical accounts. We don't base doctrine on the historical books unless supported elsewhere.
     
    #10 Marcia, May 21, 2005
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Yes, I can agree with that.
     
    #11 DHK, May 21, 2005
  12. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    As I am right about the same parallel of latitude as Jerusalem, I just have to face due east or due west; Jerusalem will be there either way. Right?

    Or, do I have to face the ground in the approximate location on the globe of the location of Jerusalem?
     
    #12 Alcott, May 21, 2005
  13. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    Hey Ben,

    In addition to what some of the others have pointed out one other thing to consider is that the Temple no longer stands in Jerusalem. When the Holy Spirit come to dwell within our hearts, as Christians, the Scripture tells us that our very bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Thus, no need to face in any certain direction when we pray.
     
    #13 Bible-boy, May 21, 2005
  14. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    Was Paul a Messianic Jew?

    Acts 18:20-21 "When they desired him to tarry longer with them he consented not, But bade them farewell saying I must by at all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

    Why is an Apostle of the church after the ressurection of Christ keeping a Feast of the Old Covenant?
     
    #14 Ben W, May 21, 2005
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It's not about geography.

    John 4
    20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
    21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
    22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
    23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law.
     
    #15 HankD, May 21, 2005
  16. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer New Member

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    Ben,

    A few observations here:

    First off I agree with you that we were grafted in with believing remnant of God's people(spiritual Jews).

    But Jesus told of a time when worship would no longer center around Jerusalem or certain places, but the true believers would worship in Spirit and truth.

    Another very important observation, is that the passages you quote, are not commands, but are examples of people doing certain activities.

    In the New Testament, the only physical ordinance that is considered sacred, and we are give great detail as to how to perform it, and the violation or descreation of which is sometimes met by death, is communion.

    IFBReformer
     
    #16 IfbReformer, May 26, 2005
  17. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer New Member

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    Because he had the freedom to do so, but was no longer required to do so.

    IFBReformer
     
    #17 IfbReformer, May 26, 2005
  18. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    The instruction to face Jerusalem came with the understanding that God's Holy Spirit dwelt with the Ark of the Covenant.

    The Ark is no longer in Jerusalem.
    God's Holy Spirit is within us.
     
    #18 TexasSky, May 26, 2005
  19. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    Agreed,

    Yet interestingly we are still instructed to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, so God seems still to have Jerusalem in mind.

    By the way, I wonder what ever happened to the Ark, was it in the Temple when the city was destroyed in 70AD?
     
    #19 Ben W, May 26, 2005
  20. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    I read somewhere that it was captured and carried to another city (I forget which one), and that historians believe that the capturing army melted it down.

    I have my doubts.
    God had blessed it and called it Holy.
    I find it hard to accept man could easily destroy it.
     
    #20 TexasSky, May 26, 2005
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