When you pray, face Jerusalem

[Ben W]

I was intrigued to see that in Islam they face Mecca when they pray, but I have recently learned that the Bible instructs us to pray facing Jerusalem.

1Kings 8:28-29

"Yet regard the prayer of Your servant and his supplication, Oh Lord my God, and listen to the cry and the prayer which your servant is praying before you today: that Your eyes may be open towards this temple night and day, toward the place of which You said, 'My name shall be there' and that you may hear the prayer that your servant makes towards this place.

Daniel 6:10

Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed he went home, And in his upper room, with his windows open toward Jerusalem, he knelt down upon his knees three times that day, and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as was his custom scince early days.

 

[DHK]

Us?
We are not Jews. There is no such command for Christians.

 

[rsr]

Amen.

I would recommend an essay by James Arlandson in THE AMERICAN THINKER regarding various holy sites.

In part, he says:

The Gospels are silent on Jesus transforming Jerusalem (or any other city) into a holy site, and certainly not in the way Muhammad did to Mecca—by the sword—and on Jesus instituting a required pilgrimage to a holy site.

It is true that Jesus wept over Jerusalem, because as a whole she did not accept his comfort (Luke 19:38-44); and that he cleansed a corner of the temple there with a whip (Luke 19:45-46), but he did this by himself, which shows he was making only a theological statement, not a military one. If his intentions were military, then he had enough disciples and crowds to call them to a jihad to try to conquer Jerusalem.

It is also true that he foretold her destruction (Luke 21:20); that he instituted the first Eucharist there (Luke 22:7-23); that he died there (Luke 23:26-49); and that, as Christians believe, he was resurrected there (Luke 24:1-12).

All of these events are historically and empirically verifiable (except perhaps the Resurrection, though volumes have been written on its verifiability), as opposed to non-empirical revelations. Despite all of these events that are rooted in earth and not floating in the air, Jesus never once turned Jerusalem into a place of pilgrimage or declared that it should belong forever to his followers, the Christians.

 

[Dr. Bob]

If the Moslem do something, my nature as a Christian would be to do the OPPOSITE. They are worshiping a huge pagan shrine

If Jews in the OT did it occasionally, more power to them. I am a not a Jew and the mercy seat no longer resides in Jerusalem.

I pray looking toward my home. Heaven, lifting up my hands to God for His help and His embrace3!

 

[Ben W]

Originally posted by DHK:
Us?
We are not Jews. There is no such command for Christians.

One way of looking at it, is that Christians really are Messianic Jews as we are "grafted in".

 

[Artimaeus]

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The hour came. I always pray facing God's Spirit.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ben W:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
Us?
We are not Jews. There is no such command for Christians.

One way of looking at it, is that Christians really are Messianic Jews as we are "grafted in". </font>[/QUOTE]1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

I don't believe in Messianic Jews, just as I don't believe in Islamic Christians. They are a contradiction of terms. Paul clearly identified three groups of peoples in the New Testament: the church (Christians), the Jew, and the Gentile (the unsaved). Everyone belongs to one of these groups. A person who was a Jew, and is saved no longer is a Jew, but is a Christian. Most of the Epistle of Ephesians is directed to this point, that we are one in Christ, both Jew and Gentile. The pagan Gentile is no longer a pagan Gentile, and the religious Jew is no longer a religious Jew. Once saved, they are Christians, part of the family of God.

A Muslim who converts is not an Islamic Christian. You wouldn't even suggest that would you? Then why suggest a Messianic Jew? It is the same logic.
DHK

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

DHK,

IMO,

you are partially correct. One who was a religious Jew and becomes a Christian is no longer a religious Jew. However, one does not cease to be ethnically Jewish because one becomes a Christian, and neither should one be ashamed of, or relinquish their secular heritage just because they become a Christian. For example, you did not cease to be Canadian when you became a Christian. I did not cease to be a Jew when I became a Christian.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Soulman]

Face any way you want. Just pray!

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Ben W:
I was intrigued to see that in Islam they face Mecca when they pray, but I have recently learned that the Bible instructs us to pray facing Jerusalem.

1Kings 8:28-29

"Yet regard the prayer of Your servant and his supplication, Oh Lord my God, and listen to the cry and the prayer which your servant is praying before you today: that Your eyes may be open towards this temple night and day, toward the place of which You said, 'My name shall be there' and that you may hear the prayer that your servant makes towards this place.

Daniel 6:10

Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed he went home, And in his upper room, with his windows open toward Jerusalem, he knelt down upon his knees three times that day, and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as was his custom scince early days.

These are not instructions; they are historical accounts. We don't base doctrine on the historical books unless supported elsewhere.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
DHK,

IMO,

you are partially correct. One who was a religious Jew and becomes a Christian is no longer a religious Jew. However, one does not cease to be ethnically Jewish because one becomes a Christian, and neither should one be ashamed of, or relinquish their secular heritage just because they become a Christian. For example, you did not cease to be Canadian when you became a Christian. I did not cease to be a Jew when I became a Christian.

Joseph Botwinick

Yes, I can agree with that.

 

[Alcott]

As I am right about the same parallel of latitude as Jerusalem, I just have to face due east or due west; Jerusalem will be there either way. Right?

Or, do I have to face the ground in the approximate location on the globe of the location of Jerusalem?

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by Ben W:
I was intrigued to see that in Islam they face Mecca when they pray, but I have recently learned that the Bible instructs us to pray facing Jerusalem.

1Kings 8:28-29

"Yet regard the prayer of Your servant and his supplication, Oh Lord my God, and listen to the cry and the prayer which your servant is praying before you today: that Your eyes may be open towards this temple night and day, toward the place of which You said, 'My name shall be there' and that you may hear the prayer that your servant makes towards this place.

Daniel 6:10

Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed he went home, And in his upper room, with his windows open toward Jerusalem, he knelt down upon his knees three times that day, and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as was his custom scince early days.

Hey Ben,

In addition to what some of the others have pointed out one other thing to consider is that the Temple no longer stands in Jerusalem. When the Holy Spirit come to dwell within our hearts, as Christians, the Scripture tells us that our very bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Thus, no need to face in any certain direction when we pray.

 

[Ben W]

Was Paul a Messianic Jew?

Acts 18:20-21 "When they desired him to tarry longer with them he consented not, But bade them farewell saying I must by at all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Why is an Apostle of the church after the ressurection of Christ keeping a Feast of the Old Covenant?

 

[HankD]

I was intrigued to see that in Islam they face Mecca when they pray, but I have recently learned that the Bible instructs us to pray facing Jerusalem.

It's not about geography.

John 4
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Why is an Apostle of the church after the ressurection of Christ keeping a Feast of the Old Covenant?

1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law.

 

[IfbReformer]

Originally posted by Ben W:
I was intrigued to see that in Islam they face Mecca when they pray, but I have recently learned that the Bible instructs us to pray facing Jerusalem.

1Kings 8:28-29

"Yet regard the prayer of Your servant and his supplication, Oh Lord my God, and listen to the cry and the prayer which your servant is praying before you today: that Your eyes may be open towards this temple night and day, toward the place of which You said, 'My name shall be there' and that you may hear the prayer that your servant makes towards this place.

Daniel 6:10

Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed he went home, And in his upper room, with his windows open toward Jerusalem, he knelt down upon his knees three times that day, and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as was his custom scince early days.

19"Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."

21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
John 4:19-23

Ben,

A few observations here:

First off I agree with you that we were grafted in with believing remnant of God's people(spiritual Jews).

But Jesus told of a time when worship would no longer center around Jerusalem or certain places, but the true believers would worship in Spirit and truth.

Another very important observation, is that the passages you quote, are not commands, but are examples of people doing certain activities.

In the New Testament, the only physical ordinance that is considered sacred, and we are give great detail as to how to perform it, and the violation or descreation of which is sometimes met by death, is communion.

IFBReformer

 

[IfbReformer]

Originally posted by Ben W:
Was Paul a Messianic Jew?

Acts 18:20-21 "When they desired him to tarry longer with them he consented not, But bade them farewell saying I must by at all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Why is an Apostle of the church after the ressurection of Christ keeping a Feast of the Old Covenant?

Because he had the freedom to do so, but was no longer required to do so.

"16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
Colossians 2:16-17

"5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord."
Romans 14:5-6

IFBReformer

 

[TexasSky]

The instruction to face Jerusalem came with the understanding that God's Holy Spirit dwelt with the Ark of the Covenant.

The Ark is no longer in Jerusalem.
God's Holy Spirit is within us.

 

[Ben W]

Agreed,

Yet interestingly we are still instructed to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, so God seems still to have Jerusalem in mind.

By the way, I wonder what ever happened to the Ark, was it in the Temple when the city was destroyed in 70AD?

 

[TexasSky]

I read somewhere that it was captured and carried to another city (I forget which one), and that historians believe that the capturing army melted it down.

I have my doubts.
God had blessed it and called it Holy.
I find it hard to accept man could easily destroy it.