Ok if Muslims have the wrong god does that mean Methudist and some baptist and others who believe you can lose your salvation do they have the wrong Christ. they are taking away the power of Christ by saying they can lose their salvation.
YHWH ALLAH
Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Jacob Webber, May 29, 2004.
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The God of Abraham is Jesus!
"Your father, Abraham, rejoiced to see My day; and he saw it, and was Glad. Then said the Jews unto Him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."---John 8: 56-58
Halelujah for the Lord Jesus Christ!
Brother David -
Jacob asked:
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The god that the Muslims pray to is anti-Christ!
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(Okay, Jacob, now you are switching topics. Before we get to this question, do you admit that the Muslims have the wrong God, that their God is not the God of the Bible?)
I am not switching topics. You are saying that due to the Muslims misconception of YHWH the God of Abraham that they do not recoginize YHWH as God. If you apply this to Muslims it must be applied to everyone who has a misconception of God. Jesus is God if someone has a misconception of Jesus than according to what you have posted they can not be worshiping the same Jesus. Because Christ said what the Father has given me no one can take away. It is a Misconception of Christ(God) that His saving Grace is not everlasting. -
In the case of those who believe you can lose salvation (and I am not one of them), they still believe that Jesus is the Son of God, in His deity, that Jesus atoned for sins on the cross, and had a bodily resurrection. Those are essentials on the NATURE of Christ and they are in agreement with those. They believe in the who Christ is according the Bible.
They differ on the question of security of salvation but that is not on the essential nature of Christ. Whereas, the God of Islam does not have the same character or nature of the God of the Bible. -
Marcia
I believe people can worship God the Father and reject God the Son. Although they see YHWH in one aspect as the Father it will do them no good as they need to see the Threefold Aspect of God and believe in His Son before receiving Salvation. People can see one side of YHWH all day long it will get them no where. Only the Son can help.
If I say YHWH is Allah the God of Abraham. I am being very specific as to whom I am talking about. If they have a misconception of YHWH it does not mean YHWH is a differnt god it means they do not understand Him and out of that misunderstanding they may assign different things to him.
(In the case of those who believe you can lose salvation (and I am not one of them), they still believe that Jesus is the Son of God, in His deity, that Jesus atoned for sins on the cross, and had a bodily resurrection.)
If you say the Blood of Christ that cleanses all sin can be wiped away you are denying the Power of Christ and His abilty to make us whole.
(They differ on the question of security of salvation but that is not on the essential nature of Christ. Whereas, the God of Islam does not have the same character or nature of the God of the Bible.)
They do not really differ in security. If you deny YHWH's true atributes you deny salvation. If you deny the Blood of Jesus has the power to cleanse you forever than you deny the Christ of the Bible. -
You can deny that God is the Father in the Triune Godhead, that God has a Son, and that God offers salvation through Christ, but it's just a "misunderstanding?" I don't think so. It's the wrong God, Jacob.
You have not offered one shred of evidence that the God of Islam is the God of the Bible. You only offer your opinion, based on nothing, that Mohammed had a wrong understanding of God. How do you know that? You didn't know Mohammed. There is no way for you to know that.
OTOH, we know by what Mohammed taught that he did not teach the God of the Bible; therefore, the God of Islam is not the God of the Bible. That is what we go by -- we look at the teachings.
You are just refusing to look at the evidence of the teachings of the two Gods here and see that they are not the same God. -
Jacob - you have an agenda here that is becoming more evident. That is sad. You are 100% wrong. Your premise is flawed.
YHWH is not Allah. Allah is not YHWH.
What kind of a sect have you gotten yourself mixed up in, son? -
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Muslims know about Jesus Christ. They know, for He is one of their prophets. In fact there is more written about Jesus Christ in the Koran than there is about Mohammed. They also know what Christians believe about "their prophet" Jesus Christ, i.e., that He is God. They don't believe that, but they know that we believe that.
The demons are not saved, but they know that Christ is God. And they believe it. They even tremble at the very thought.
Reading through both the gospels and the Book of Acts there are many cases where demons cry out attesting to the deity of Christ.
For example the man in the synagogue who was possessed with an unclean spirit (or a demon).
Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Before Jesus cast him out, he attested of his deity. Even Satan and his demons believe that Christ is God. They know this fact is true. Their knowledge of it won't get them to heaven of course.
The God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob: Jehovah, is Jesus Christ. He who denies that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, the same is an antichrist. (1John 4:1-4}
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
DHK -
"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
(John3:36)
The result of not believing in the Son? God's wrath.
"He who hates me hates My Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father."
(John 15:23-24)
The result of hating (rejecting) the Son? They hate the Father also.
What you are saying is totally against the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ.
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth and the life, No one comes to the Father except through Me.
(John 14:6) -
Rejection of the Son = rejection of the Father = no worship of the same!
Islam god(Allah) is anti-Christ! To be anti-christ = anti-Father! He who denies the Son also denies the Father! -
Here is something I do not understand than I YHWH stops being YHWH because someone does not understand Him. But if someone does not understand Christ still remains Christ.
The God of Abrham YHWH to matter what false attributes I give Him, He never stops being YHWH it is that I have a misconception of Him. Again I repeat if I do not see Jesus in YHWH it does me no good wether I believe in the Father. The Jews at the time of Christ believed in the Father but not the Son. They used God's laws to rule over others so they acknowledge that YHWH was the God of Abraham. They just like the Muslims did not follow YHWH's teachings but again this did not stop the God of Abrham from Being YHWH even if they reject Him He still remains YHWH. I am not sure how saying the God of Abrham remains YHWH even if you have a misconception of Him and it being unbiblical. -
Marcia
(So it's okay to misunderstand who YHWH is but not to misunderstand the blood of Jesus? That is inconsistent.)
This is the question I am posing to you. I am not saying it is ok to misunderstand YHWH I am saying just the opisite if you misunderstand YHWH and do not see Him in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity in the Son Jesus Christ than you will NOT go to Heaven. I am saying that even thou Muslims and Jews have a misunderstanding about YHWH when they are talking about the God of Abrham they are talking about YHWH not a false god. Because no matter their misconception the God of Abrham is YHWH in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity. It is interesting that both in Genesis it uses Elohym which is plural for the word god. In the Koran in a translation I researched it uses WE a plural form to represent Allah but yet he is one god.
Again you can see the Father but if you deny the Son, Yes you deny the Father you can talk about the Father Pray to the Father but if you do not see the Son Your prayers are in vain. Muslims know that the God of Abrham is YHWH. They reject His Son and they reject Salvation. -
Dr. Bob said,
Bro Tony -
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Yes, YHWH still remains YHWH -- that is not the issue. However, who we believe God to be and who we worship is the issue here. The Muslims are not believing in or worshipping the true God.
The bottom line, Jacob, is that the God of Islam is not the God of the Bible. It is a false god. I think Freemasonry has confused the issue for you because they try to make the gods of Islam and other religions the same as the Christian God. It's impossible. -
Dr. Bob and Bro Tony
What is my agenda I am at a lose as to what you think it is. My goal here is to learn, pose question and find answers. When someone say they worship the God of Abraham I take it to mean YHWH. Because YHWH according to the Bible is Abraham's God. Even if they do not fully comprehend YHWH if they are talking about the God of Abraham they are talking about YHWH. Maybe this is were I am making a mistake many pastors I know and say the Koran talks about YHWH event the Muslims say YHWH the same God the JEws and Christians worship is God. I took like a lost person prayer to God of the Bible althou he did not have the Son He was still praying to the Father. Not until they accepted the Son did the truely understand YHWH in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity. I asumed when the lost even thou it fail on deaf ears prayed to the Father I asumed this applied to those who were lost and prayed to YHWH. So if what you say is True than even those who are lost and are seeking healing from the Father they are not praying to YHWH but a false god. Only when they pray for salvation do they pray to the True God YHWH. Is this correct?
(I think Freemasonry has confused the issue for you because they try to make the gods of Islam and other religions the same as the Christian God. It's impossible.)
No I am not I only asumes the Jews and Muslims seen God the Father YHWH. Even then only seeing the Father Aspect of YHWH will not help only thru the Threefold Aspect of YHWH the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. Only thru the Blood of the Son in an acceptance in Him are we saved.
The other religions and are not the same as my God, Jesus. Freemasonry plainly says that not all Freemasons worship the same god so the claim that Freemasonry trys to make all gods the same is untrue. -
Mohammed knew about Christianity when he started Islam. He rejected Christianity and started what eventually became Islam. His god is not real; it is a false god.
When we have clear evidence, such as the teachings of Islam, that their god is not the God of the Bible, we cannot accept the opposite of what the evidence plainly tells us. -
So it comes down to this I guess. They worship YHWH in name only everything else they do does not point to Him.
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