Did God Create Evil and Sin for His Glory?

I don't care if they oppose God because God wants that to be, what's it got to do with me? I am not His avenger nor His defender He's ours. :) Rest.

If He wants a blasphemer to shut up He will shut him up.

I take every oppotunity to preach and teach what I know and those that oppose my faith give me a platform from which to address an audience. I prefer argument to pontification and pontificating would be all there was if debate ceased, (although 'debate' is a debatable word). :)

We are to judge men not on their doctrine first but on whether they have asked Jesus to forgive their sins. If a man has been to Jesus and asked for mercy who am I to say they are not brothers? Paul talks of the false teachers and testified that some are saved, 1 Cor 3:12-15.

But a Christian has had his sins forgiven. Jesus became the cursed on our behalf. If God takes His time with some, I've heard Calvinists say they were Arminians for decades, He doesn't grow everyone fast, that's why He gave some to be teachers. The Bride needs readying the Groom is not far off.

Brother Bob.

John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. :)

john.

 

Brother Bob.

Not God, God's word expounded. By the way, it is by grace that we are saved. I know so cause it says so. :) Eph 2:8.

john.

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I agree its by Grace are ye saved.
It takes something to get that Grace though and its "faith".
Grace is the "gift" of God. (which is His son)
Faith is :
1Jo 5:5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Eph. 1:

13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Saying that we too can obtain that inheritance if we trust in Christ and believe). Its as simple as that giving all men a chance to be Saved.

If they are "His own", are they the "elect"?

 

John, this hurts me to say this, {personal attack deleted}

 

Jhn 12:32

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

 

I feel your pain. NOT!
Such remarks attacking people's salvation are not needed.

You are very close to being banned because of continued attacks against various individuals.
It needs to stop.

 

Where does it say in the Bible that God can't be the author of sin?

Peace,

JM
PS: Pls. note, I haven't presented a case for or against God being the author of sin.

 

Well, Scripture consistently identifies God with good.

 

God created all things for good. Satan didn't create anything, but he perverted what God made for good and turned it into sin.

I thank the Lord that He can take what Satan meant for evil and use it for good...

 

But what does scripture say?

 

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

After creation, God looked upon everything and it was very good. From that alone we see that he could not have been the author of evil.

 

Was that before the fall? [ :1_grouphug: ]

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

So, can we say from that alone that God is the author of evil?

Just trying to understanding.

j
_________________________________
BDB Definition:
1) bad, evil (adjective)
1a) bad, disagreeable, malignant
1b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
1c) evil, displeasing
1d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
1e) bad (of value)
1f) worse than, worst (comparison)
1g) sad, unhappy
1h) evil (hurtful)
1i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
1j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
1j1) in general, of persons, of thoughts
1j2) deeds, actions

 

reworded............

 

john says

That is wrong sir 2 jn 9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Tulip is the doctrine of christ...

men do not give gods ministers a platform, God does John



also 2 cor 12Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,

1cor 9For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries.

You thank man too much john. I will trust God to give me platforms to preach .

The true gospel does not solicit for men to ask for forgiveness john, the true gospel proclaims foregiveness to the elect.

acts 5 31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Peter is proclaiming foregiveness ! to who ? Israel the elect of God !

acts 13 38Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached[proclaimed] unto you the forgiveness of sins:

eph 1 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

matt 26 28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

lk 24 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


lk 1 the old man said it right, preaching christ gives the knowledge of salvation and forgiveness of sins

77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

look at jesus in Matt 9

1And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.

2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Jesus freely and sovereignly forgave this man his sins ! The man did not beg him and ask him.

look at lk 7 a beautiful illustration of grace and forgiveness

36And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.

37And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,

38And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

39Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

40And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

41There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.

42And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

43Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

jn 8

3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Show me once in the above narrative where this women taken in adultry asked jesus for forgiveness ?

To be consistent then with this reasoning, you would have to include those like jw, or mormons or seven dayadventis. I have a fishing friend , who grew up in a traditional baptist church and believes that he is saved because he accepted christ as his saviour and has asked him to forgive him of his sins. But the young man will not accept that jesus is equal with god, but only in some lesser way, the son of God. According to your reasoning, you would accept his testimony of salvation because he has asked jesus to forgive him his sins. HOGWASH !





So you do err there john, only arminians who have not heard the true gospel ask for forgivenss , because they believe that is a work that should be done to gain acceptance with God.

This is not true. We know some worthless things may have been said, but we also know that they believed on the true christ, that is proven by vs

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

paul himself preached christ the true foundation for he says in vs 10

I have laid the foundation,

Paul when he preached christ, He preached who christ is, what he has done or accomplished, who he accomplished it for, and why ! And I know paul preached the gospel of Gods grace , for he testifies to that in acts 20

24But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Now grace being his theme, he preached election of grace

rom 11

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

he preached salvation by grace see eph 2 8


he preached the purpose of grace

2tim 1

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

he preached the effectual working of grace as in

eph 3 7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


he taught that grace reigns unto life

rom 5 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

I agree, but you have no right to call one a believer until you percieve the grace of God. Remeber the apostles, they did not fellowship paul till they percieved his testimony of grace.

gal 2

9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

But you john are not as noble as they, you just take someone at their word and don't care about their beliefs.

God may have elect in all the cults in the world, like those in athens on mars hill in acts 17, but until they showed evidence of believing the gospel and foresaking their false gods, would you call them chrisitians ? They were elect is obvious, but would you felloship with them and call them brethern while still in their superstition ? God forbid !

 

2 John 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not [abideth] continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

One must get the teaching first beloved.

Must I say the same to you, I never said men give me anything did I, I said I take every oppotunity didn't I? :) In season and out of.

I am aware of that and I accept people who did not jump through that particular hoop. If someone shows that they have a grasp on the scriptures then that reveals the workings of the Holy Spirit. And if someone told me he had been knocked off his horse by some disembodied voice would I? Depends on what he says don't it? Like you.

You forget about the sleeping virgins man. They couldn't even help those others but sent them to get more oil from those who sold it. I'm sure the thief knew the five points of Calvinism. :) You are as deeply into works as any free willer if you claim one must have anything besides Christ's sacrifice. It was a sacrifice of atonement not a sacrifice of atonement and four years in bible college.

You already said I wasn't noble enough why ask me after you give the answer? I would not take communion with you at the moment because you are talking scripture and not living it, even if. You are in disobedience, you must love your brothers and sisters whether they are Christian or not. Lambasting people is not the best evangelical tool is it? It's, "Let your kindness be evident."
1 Cor 9:22 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

john.

 

In many eastern religions the idea of evil and Satan is exaulted to be equal with God as if God NEEDs Satan so that God can be good.

The idea is that Good can not exist by itself - it NEEDS evil.

That is one of the "doctrines of demons" Paul speaks of in his letter to Timothy.

Be not deceived about it.

As DHK pointed out from Genesis 1
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day

God did not "NEED evil" to declare Good! He did not need to say "Here is the devil and over here is a good sinless world NOW that we have the devil we finally know what a peaceful sinless world looks like".


In Christ,

Bob

 

I have to wonder if Arminius was using those tactics.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Sure it is! Plug is asking about the Calvinist model and I am explaining it to him in terms JohnP uses.

God so Loved "THE WORLD" GE -- not just me.

Get it??

It is only the 4 and 5pt Calvinist that says "God just loved ME not the WORLD". Did you somehow miss my quote of JohnP and B57 on that point??

In Christ,

Bob

 

Tell me Bob;
In your heart of hearts, when God said not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the day you do ye shall surely die.
It was good if they did not eat of the tree right?

And was it possible at that same time not before but at the same time for them to eat of the tree? which was evil.
As far as "Good". God is Good and certainly existed before Satan did. so Good as being God can exist and the time will come that good is all there will be, unfortuantly it is not now.

As I said, Good can exist of itself for God is Good and existed before all, also to prove it more the time will come that all evil will be put down and all there will be is Good.

 

First there was God --

Then God created sinless angels and who knows what else

Then God created this world and sinless people

Sometime in there 1/3 of the sinless angels sinned - lead by Lucifer.

And then Lucifer caused the fall of man --

But the system STARTS out GOOD and does not "need evil" to BE good.

IF God created a system that NEEDED evil to BE good then indeed God would be the author of Evil.

In Christ,

Bob