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Featured How should christians treat the saved homosexual?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Matt22:37-39, Apr 12, 2013.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You are mistaken,using that verse out of context...we are not under law as a principle...we are not under the laws penanlty..if we are IN Christ,however;

    Christians are not lawless. We are under law to Christ.
    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    grace and law are together for believers
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    ANY sexual activity outside of marraige is sinful;
    4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

    Whoremongers is descriptive of these persons here also.
     
  3. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Zaac he left out lesbians...they don't sodomize I don't think?
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    God said these acts were so vile the land VOMIT them out....

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

    23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

    24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

    25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

    26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

    27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)

    28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

    29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

    30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God.
     
  5. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Hey we should get together and start a ministry...there needs to be more Christians like us who preach the whole counsel of God's word than pick and choose which ones sound better.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    They do....but let's not go there.
     
  7. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    even sodomy within a heterosexual marriage?
     
  8. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Hey how would you know that?
     
  9. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Just what the world is looking for, people to pat them on the back and condone their sinful desires.
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    There are some who teach what you do...Unitarian universalists...with sodomite ministers and there "inclusive sevices"...but this is not part of the scripture at all.
     
  11. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    That is NOT true...

    ...and I take complete exception to this example. My daughter is a lesbian, and she is just as much engrossed with some group that has taught her that she can be a believer while living out her life as a lesbian. And yes, I see lesbians as sinful as gays. To me, one sin is as wrong as the other. Divorce is a sin. Fornication is a sin. Adultery is s in. Gossip is a sin. Hate and lying is a sin. Stealing is a sin. KILLING unborn babies, is a sin. Molesting children is a sin.

    And if someone comes to Jesus and says they are born-again, and EASING off the sin throttle, a red flag goes up.

    I realize that the battle with the flesh and sin is a life long battle. There will be victories, defeats, and more temptations; HOWEVER, and that's a BIG however. A born-again believer can no way continue to do what they were doing. When Jesus told the woman to "Go and sin no more!" Was He just using a metaphorical apporach? Was he just telling her to ease off the men [instead of three or four a day, try one a day]?

    I don't think so...take for example this definition of repentance from Gracethrufaith.com.

    "The word in the New Testament usually translated “repent” is the Greek word “metanoeo”. It means “to change your mind; reconsider; or, to think differently.” Granted, if a person changes his mind (repents) toward certain sins in his life, he may become very sorrowful and may even stop committing those sins, but this would be a result of repenting, not repentance itself.

    When God tells an unsaved man to repent, He means for that man to change his mind about how to reach God and accept His way of salvation. The person must change his mind from any idea of saving himself through religion or good works, and trust Christ’s death as payment for everything he has done wrong."


    Furthermore [taken from Gospel Translations.com] - A man’s penitential activity, however, are subsumed and summarized by this one verb shub. For better than any other verb it combines in itself the two requisites of repentance: :jesus:They conclude by saying, “To be sure, there is no systematic spelling out of the doctrine of repentance in the OT. It is illustrated (Ps 51) more than anything else. Yet the fact that people are called “to turn” either “to” or “away from” implies that sin is not an ineradicable stain, but by turning, a God-given power, a sinner can redirect his destiny. There are two sides in understanding conversion, the free sover-eign act of God’s mercy and man’s going beyond contrition and sorrow to a conscious decision of turning to God. The latter includes repudiation of all sin and affirmation of God’s total will for one’s life.”

    FINALLY - “For if after they have escaped the pollutions [fornication, adultery, murder, homosexuality, gossip. lies, hate] of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Sav-ior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire” (2Pe 2:20-22).

    WOULD NOT a repentant homosexual that continues in the act of homosexuality would be like any other sinner that returns to their fleshly sin [adulltery, fornication, hate, gossip, lying, hating, killing, causing division in the church], like a dog returning to devour its vomit???

    That is the question some of you need to provide an answer to if you continue to support this ridiculous idea that a born-again child of God can ease away from their sin. :wavey:
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :thumbs::thumbs:
     
  13. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    RIGHTEOUSDUDE...hmmm, maybe God is speaking to you through me...God's time isn't your time. I feel for you as a father who loves his daughter and wishes the best for her and for her to walk with God.

    I have two boys, now while both boys are good responsible boys, I am pretty sure if not dead sure that my younger son is SAVED...he showed evidence of this at 4 when he accepted Christ and I saw the fruit throughout his life. Now the other one while he accepted Christ too at 3...I have no assurance he is saved...like I said the best son ever, good kid and all...(women fall in love with him cause of his good character and hard work ethic and he is just awesome) but is he saved? I don't know? He lived with his wife before they got married and a few others as well.

    Now he like your daughter is living in sin....and I have never once called him out about living in sin, never...I raised him right and he was raised in the church and Christian school his WHOLE life...If he isn't saved how can I expect to act like it, without God's power in him?......so all I am called to do as a mom and he is a grown man, is to LOVE HIM and his wife and by doing that and being an example, that is what is going to bring him to a closer walk with God saved or not.
     
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    So you do not do as scripture says? If he claims Christ, you do not obey Galatians 6:1? No wonder the world thinks we are hypocrites.

    In our church, we DO address fornication. We DO address adultery. We DO address drunkenness. We are certainly not a perfect church but nor do we call that which is sin "good".
     
  15. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Matt22

    There is nothing wrong with two friends, who, for some reason..maybe finacial hardship..choose to live together with seperate bedrooms.

    To accuse them of being lesbians would be slander.
     
  16. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    Again, this is BIBLICALLY correct. The sexual ACTIVITY is sinful

    A whoremonger is descriptive of a person who whores. Neither homosexuals nor heterosexuals have to be engaged in sinful acts to be called a homosexual or heterosexual.

    Homosexuality is the orientation. It is not sinful. Homosexual sex acts are sinful.
    Heterosexuality is an orientation. It is not sinful. Heterosexual sex acts outside of marriage are sinful.
     
  17. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    Yes He says the ACTS are vile. The ACTS are the sin. Homosexual sex ACTS are sinful just as heterosexual sex acts outside of marriage are sinful.

    That DOES NOT say that identifying as a heterosexual or homosexual is sinful.
     
  18. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    I don't get the "ease away from sin" bit. I've always said that a Christian, whether he understands God's reasoning or not, should at LEAST be able to say what God says is a sin is a sin.

    But do we say the same of the repentant heterosexual who lies? overeats?dresses immodestly?Provide an answer for that?
     
  19. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    And this is a biggie. If God says it is a sin, it's a sin. And on some level, when they are alone in that quiet place, every one will admit that something ain't quite right.

    But if the Church knows it's a sin and we know that they know it's a sin because God's word says in Romans that they know, then why do we keep getting off message of the Good News?

    Why do we keep letting the enemy frame the conversation?

    We don't have to demonize these folks. All that does is make it impossible to build a relationship with them and point them to Christ.

    They KNOW and we know that they know. So just accept it as a sinner attempting to deal with his brokenness just like every one of us have done in the past.

    The enemy wants to make this into a us against a group issue and we keep buying into that conversation.

    The conversation is about broken people needing a Savior and what Jesus Christ did so that the brokenness could be dealt with. Point them to Jesus. Leave the issues alone.

    If you're loving folks and telling them about the redeeming love of Christ, they will GET that the homosexual sex acts are sinful. And even if they don't understand why, because they want to be in relationship with Jesus, they will want to obey what HE says.

    Point them to Jesus.:jesus:
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This is not biblical at all.It is rebellion against a creation ordinance that God uses to describe His relationship to His body the Church.

    You cannot separate the issues...Point them to Jesus as what? it is not broken people..it is sinners, if the Spirit convicts them of their lawless deeds they will then be broken over their sins
     
    #100 Iconoclast, Apr 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2013
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