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Featured Murder in The Bible

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 18, 2020.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Please give one case expmle from in rhis thread.
     
    #61 37818, Oct 20, 2020
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    when the Bible clearly says that murder is to be punished by death, and anyone suggests any other option, this is to disregard what the Bible says. There is not even a hint in Scripture to suggest that our personal sentiments should even be considered, especially when Scripture is very clear. Any reasoning against what the Bible says, is an attempt to press ones opinion over the Word of God.
     
    #62 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2020
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You did not answer my request.
     
    #63 37818, Oct 20, 2020
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    A universal truth? Does that mean God requires the death penalty to everyone who commits murder?

    peace to you
     
    #64 canadyjd, Oct 20, 2020
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    for example, "Murder special case, before Mosaic Law!" This is NOT what the Bible teaches, but ones own personal interpretation of what it says.

    Then there is the misapplication of Pauls words in 1 Timothy 1, which has nothing to do with the Law of the Lord, which is very clear. Romans 1:29, also written by Paul, states "murder" and says, " Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." (verse 32).

    It is NOT for us to decide any more or less than what the Bible says. If you still cannot grasp this, then I think that you should ask the Lord to show you from His Word.
     
    #65 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2020
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    does God contradict His own Word?
     
    #66 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2020
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    None of those expamles are actually cases of changing God's word. Prior to God Himself killing all mankind less Noah and His family there was no death penalty for murder.
     
    #67 37818, Oct 20, 2020
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I have nothing further to add, as it appears that you don't understand the purpose of my OP and what I am saying. The Lord is the Best to learn from.
     
    #68 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2020
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  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Does the “universal truth” of Gen 9 mean that God requires the death penalty for everyone who commits murder?

    peace to you
     
    #69 canadyjd, Oct 20, 2020
  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    The 1Tim 1 passage explicitly addresses how Christians are to consider sinners such as the murderer Paul. We are to follow the example of our Lord Jesus Christ and show mercy.

    God doesn’t need Christians to deliver the death penalty through governments.

    We are called to be different.

    What is it about following the example of our Lord Jesus Christ in showing mercy that bothers you?

    peace to you
     
    #70 canadyjd, Oct 20, 2020
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  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    have you read the Bible verses in the OP? they will have the answer for you
     
    #71 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2020
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Why not? Romans 13:1-7, ". . . the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. . . ."
     
    #72 37818, Oct 20, 2020
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    With all respect, you have completely misunderstood what I am saying. I most certainly do NOT personally even like the death penalty, and have no problem with showing mercy and forgiveness for those who might commit such crimes, depending on the circumstances. What I have been saying all along, is the Bible teaches that the high crime of murder, is to be punishable with the death penalty. This is NOT an optional punishment for us to argue about with the Lord, but very clear to be carried out, whether we like it or not. Are you saying that if a Christian leader who follows the teaching of the Bible, has the death penalty and uses it, because the Bible says so, that they personally lack mercy, compassion and forgiveness? Places like India, where there have been an increase in brutal rapes even against 5 and 6 year old girls, have the death penalty for this. Whereas in the "West", these can claim some rubbish like "diminished responsibility", or other Liberal nonsense, and get away with it, as we see all too often.
     
    #73 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    "If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain (ἀποκτείνω, condemned to death). Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints" (Revelation 13:10)
     
    #74 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2020
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  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    The reason I’m questioning the comment that the death penalty is a “universal truth” or, as you stated, “NOT an optional punishment” is that scripture doesn’t support that view.

    There are many examples of God not requiring the death penalty for murder.

    Cain murdered Abel prior to the Gen 9 passage, but God did not require the death penalty for Cain.

    Moses murdered an Egyptian, burying his body in the sand, after Gen 9, but prior to the OT Law. God did not require the death penalty for Moses.

    David murdered Uriah, as someone else stated by proxy, after the giving the OT Law and prior to Christ, but God did not require the death penalty for David.

    Paul persecuted Christians to the death, after the coming of Jesus, but God did not require the death penalty for Paul.

    And God gave an explicit command. When dealing with the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul, Christians are to follow the example of Jesus by showing mercy.

    peace to you
     
    #75 canadyjd, Oct 20, 2020
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Saying that First degree murder capital crime before the Mosaic law ever given!
     
    #76 Yeshua1, Oct 20, 2020
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think that first degree murder permits death penalty but not required!
     
    #77 Yeshua1, Oct 20, 2020
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I have studied this issue in depth for about 20 years. I had been pro-death penalty for most of my life.

    It was by the thoughtful, prayerful consideration of all of these passages that I have come to the conclusion that God has given governments the authority to administer the death penalty and that Christians are called to be different, we are commanded to show mercy.

    My view is consistent with all passages of scripture.

    peace to you
     
    #78 canadyjd, Oct 20, 2020
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  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    can you not see the difference here? God IS GOD, and therefore He does as He pleases, this is why He is Absolutely Sovereign. He and ONLY He can pardon the worst crimes, as even murderers will be in heaven. HOWEVER, for us humans, He has given us the Law, and this says very clearly, that it is always punishable by death. As I have said elsewhere, God used incest to propagate the human race, and yet for us humans, incest is a crime and sinful! God has His Standards which are much higher than ours.
     
    #79 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2020
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    like disobey the very Word of God? You have to be kidding!
     
    #80 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2020
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